Cleaning Engine Internals

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And Trajan, before you say it-yes, I did use Auto-RX in the past and at first I thought it worked, because a seal leak stopped after I used Auto-RX. But after no one was able to provide solid evidence that Auto-RX actually cleaned the interiors of engines, after I was flat out attacked personally for daring to suggest that other products besides Auto-RX should be discussed in the Oil Additives Section, and one of more former posters here said they had been paid (with product) to promote a product here, which I don't know if that was the truth or not but it angered me, and after the behavior of certain people at this website who promote Auto-RX, I stopped using it. I stopped using it years ago.

So there, Trajan. I saved you from having to get into all of that.
 
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Care to list all those posts? Or would you rather I do it?

Nobody would make post after post over various threads praising it unless it worked.

And now you repudiate all your claims?

I have to question your.............. veracity perhaps?
 
Same old tune, play it again. Same old tune, play it again. Same old tune, play it again.

Last time I checked Trajan this was still a free country. And a person is free to change their mind also. I changed my mind about Auto-RX years ago. I have not used Auto-RX in several years. I gave my last two bottles away to a guy here at bobistheoilguy.com.

So you want to question my....veracity perhaps? Let us take a look at yours. At one time you thought very highly of MMO. You said so here. But besides that, you put down MMO and Kreen every chance you get but Auto-RX is the real deal, right?

I have been waiting for the proof for many years now.

There are several reasons I moved on from Auto-RX. Some of those reasons are listed above. If that is not good enough for you too bad.
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
And Trajan, before you say it-yes, I did use Auto-RX in the past and at first I thought it worked, because a seal leak stopped after I used Auto-RX. But after no one was able to provide solid evidence that Auto-RX actually cleaned the interiors of engines, after I was flat out attacked personally for daring to suggest that other products besides Auto-RX should be discussed in the Oil Additives Section, and one of more former posters here said they had been paid (with product) to promote a product here, which I don't know if that was the truth or not but it angered me, and after the behavior of certain people at this website who promote Auto-RX, I stopped using it. I stopped using it years ago.

So there, Trajan. I saved you from having to get into all of that.


Just one more thing, Trajan. Here is what I said earlier. Check this: "...and after the behavior of certain people at this website who promote Auto-RX, I stopped using it."
 
Originally Posted By: Oldswagon
...and I am still not sure about using solvent based engine cleaners, especially on a 40+ year old engine with old seals.

Will a HM oil clean up the engine better than a HDEO? I am leaning toward just sticking with the gentle approach with high detergent oil and short OCI.


Since Kano Labs has been selling Kreen for about that long it seems like a good fit!

But seriously, Maxlife comes in a synthetic and a blend and is a wonderful oil. It cleans quite well, if a bit slowly...
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
With the engine still in one piece and in the car, add 1qt of diesel to the sump, idle for 10 mins, replace filter, repeat. (As many times as necessary till the fluid stays clean.

If the engine is out/stripped then brake cleaner, pressure washer, autoclave, bucket full of nasty solvents etc..



this^^^^^^^^^^^^^

butt, id drain the oil out or fill it to the (full) mark if its low on oil...

i just got an engine with super super black thick looking 30/40 wt.

2 quarts diesel, 3 quarts fill oil, 3/5 10 minute idles.

fluid came out black, valve covers showed a spotless looking motor.

let it drain till nothing drips out, fill with favorite oil and enjoy
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Some people have had good luck with autorx (like myself), others not. I believe there is a thread from dnewton where he got before and after compression readings and it certainly improved the #s.

I've taken aspirin to relieve a headache and it hasn't worked; that certainly doesn't disqualify it as a pain reliever when others ask for a recommendation.


You want compression readings) I can give all you want, how much of a difference would you like?
Don't ask me for proof. If thats the case show me his or are only certain people held to different standards?

Show me them on a recording compression tester if you want them to have any merit. I don't care who did it, if its not recorded by the actual tester its worthless.
No offense to you some people want to believe, show me the paper or lets stop the trash talk.

Lets see one done with this tool (or similar) and we can talk about compression reading results.
These testers are accepted by BMW, Mercedes, VW/Audi/Porsche, Dekra, TÜV, etc as proof for warranty work needed or completed repairs and are calibrated before use.
The card must be attached to the RO or they treat it as no proof provided. New cars use different methods also but this is the old standby.

http://www.motometer.de/recording-compression-tester.html


I don't understand your response or my original intent was misunderstood.

My only point is that it works for some, and not others; because it hasn't worked for 1 person or 5 doesn't disqualify it as an effective product for someone else.

There is a myriad of reasons it is recommended, perhaps it is more suitable for solving some issues than others.
 
If 10 people buy paint remover and it doesn't remove paint but it removed paint for one person those are not good odds.

If the instructions were simply, put this in with your oil, run it 3K then run anther oil change for 3K to wash it out and your done.
If it doesn't clean your engine or you are not satisfied we will give you your money back no questions asked and they stood by it i have no problem with it.

It never worked that way. Instead customers were abused, accused of not following directions, buying counterfeit product, lying or not even buying the product.
 
I'm still pretty new here, so I took the advise a few times about reading old threads, and came to the conclusion my fav, MMO gives the best bang for the buck. I've used it on a few beater cars, project cars, and a clunker my daughter bought, along with clunkers buddies bought and the stuff works [good cleaner and hushes lifter noises in SB Chevy engines, if dirt is the problem].

I have a pretty long history with it like several members here and it works. At close to $30 a bottle for the rx, stuff and the controversy around it, I pass. I would test a free sample of it though, next time I run into someone with an engine needing it.

The Kano people make good stuff too, I trust them too.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
If 10 people buy paint remover and it doesn't remove paint but it removed paint for one person those are not good odds.

If the instructions were simply, put this in with your oil, run it 3K then run anther oil change for 3K to wash it out and your done.
If it doesn't clean your engine or you are not satisfied we will give you your money back no questions asked and they stood by it i have no problem with it.

It never worked that way. Instead customers were abused, accused of not following directions, buying counterfeit product, lying or not even buying the product.



And despite it all, it has been proven to work.

Dnewton, who was a skeptic, showed it worked. With more data presented than I've ever seen for kreen/mmo.

Artem showed pics in which it worked better than kreen. Which led to you claiming he was a shill.

Mystic has posted over and over and over that it worked.

SteveSRT8 had posted that it takes care of everything. That it is miraculous. (Compared to mmo in the oil.)

simple_gifts, and Kuato have posted it works. And you go after the former for it.

To say nothing of the late Gary Allan.

Even Molakule has good things to say about it IIRC.

What further proof do you need?
 
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Don't speak for me Trajan. I will speak for myself. I have not used Auto-RX in years. I gave my last two bottles away to a guy here at bobistheoilguy.com. Let me repeat in case you don't understand: I STOPPED USING AUTO-RX YEARS AGO! The next time you mention my name you be sure to include that.

You also mention SteveSRT8. Unlike you I am not going to try to talk for another person. But anybody can read SteveSRT8's reply above. He talked about the way he had been treated as an Auto-RX customer. He certainly does not seem very happy about how he was treated. Anybody can read what he said and draw his own conclusions.

Trav also talked about how he had been treated as an Auto-RX user. Trav is a professional mechanic in Germany and he has talked about how Kreen worked for him in cleaning some engines.

You talk about how wonderful Auto-RX is and put down other products. But you fail to mention the posters here who have had bad experiences with customer service after buying Auto-RX.

The next time you use my name to try to promote Auto-RX be sure to include I stopped using Auto-RX years ago.
 
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Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Trav
If 10 people buy paint remover and it doesn't remove paint but it removed paint for one person those are not good odds.

If the instructions were simply, put this in with your oil, run it 3K then run anther oil change for 3K to wash it out and your done.
If it doesn't clean your engine or you are not satisfied we will give you your money back no questions asked and they stood by it i have no problem with it.

It never worked that way. Instead customers were abused, accused of not following directions, buying counterfeit product, lying or not even buying the product.



And despite it all, it has been proven to work.

Dnewton, who was a skeptic, showed it worked. With more data presented than I've ever seen for kreen/mmo.

Artem showed pics in which it worked better than kreen. Which led to you claiming he was a shill.

Mystic has posted over and over and over that it worked.

SteveSRT8 had posted that it takes care of everything. That it is miraculous. (Compared to mmo in the oil.)

simple_gifts, and Kuato have posted it works. And you go after the former for it.

To say nothing of the late Gary Allan.

Even Molakule has good things to say about it IIRC.

What further proof do you need?


Good point. I did my own homework, to back up why I keep reaching for MMO. What I did was counted people posting positively and negatively about MMO and rx. I found more positive about mmo and a lot less controversy. No science just a common sense approach. That plus price, my own observations, which I really don't care what anyone thinks about them keeps me using mmo. It seems anytime someone posts observations they risk a harpoon attack here. The compression results, I've seen a few threads showing mmo and rx have raised it.

Scientific data, good luck finding that. The only science I was able to dig up was mmo looks real good in UOA reports. Some see those as the Holy Grail, so it worked for me seeing mmo did well. Lets not forget long time posters using Kano products and mmo for 40 years or more. Why would they lie? Especially when there's nothing in it for them.

I also see there are some people with more credibility than others here dnewton is one Trav is another. Seeing Trav is an actual master mechanic I seem to lean toward him. Website hype, or test results posted on a site, baloney IMO. But hey that's just me, not dissing anyone, telling it like I see it.

Lastly people can build a case for mmo, rx, kreen, and risoline. If it works for you, use it. Enjoy the 4th.
 
Originally Posted By: rockydee

Scientific data, good luck finding that.


Data doesn't have to be scientific. But, making statements like "I get 2mpg more after using mmo" doesn't mean very much without some mpg readings before using it, during its use, and after its use.

Some people complain about those who want to see before and after compression tests, they moan about an unknown compression tester being used. (Unknown to them, but they ignore that.)

But they'll take claims out of thin air, or butt dynos of unknown quality at the drop of a hat.

As one poster stated, (not me), "This is BITOG. In God we trust, all others must bring data."

But people would rather accept anecdotes. (But only ones they agree with.)

As for "website hype" that can apply to *any* claim made by people on a website.
 
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Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: rockydee

Scientific data, good luck finding that.


Data doesn't have to be scientific. But, making statements like "I get 2mpg more after using mmo" doesn't mean very much without some mpg readings before using it, during its use, and after its use.

Some people complain about those who want to see before and after compression tests, they moan about an unknown compression tester being used. (Unknown to them, but they ignore that.)

But they'll take claims out of thin air, or butt dynos of unknown quality at the drop of a hat.

As one poster stated, (not me), "This is BITOG. In God we trust, all others must bring data."

But people would rather accept anecdotes. (But only ones they agree with.)

As for "website hype" that can apply to *any* claim made by people on a website.


I looked at data in the form of uoa, just for [censored] and giggles, and mmo did well. I already knew it from my own anecdotal evidence, and those of others. I see guys like Trav, SteveStr8, and a few others posting negatively, and then taking harpoon attacks, being called liars etc it gets me thinking, and wanting to investigate more. After doing so, I'm going to stick to mmo.

As far as Mystic, I consider him one of the guys who changed their mind about a product. That happens, I could have sworn I read somewhere you posted positively about mmo at some point. If I'm wrong, sorry. You changed your mind it happens, and I see nothing wrong with it. Some people change their minds because of a companies policy and how they treat their customers, that doesn't make them bad. Maybe that's what changed mystic's mind, and he found cheaper products [because of the reports others posted here] to do as, good as or a better job than rx.

Like I said if you like a product use it. But don't rain on someone else's parade or discredit them for their pov, or because they changed their mind. [censored] I changed my mind more than once, am I a bad guy? lol

BTW I don't read much into mpg claims either, so we agree there. I do believe my eyes and ears though. When I look down the ole fill hole and see an improvement, or don't here a lifter tick, tick, ticking, I'm a believer. Now does someone else have to believe me, I really don't care.
 
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How about i got more MPG at idle.
Yep some poster actually tried to sell that one based on the cars instant MPG gauge. Why don't you look up who that was and question him about his MPG claims.
lol.gif


At least this guy is claiming he got 2 MPG improvement while actually driving the car.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
How about i got more MPG at idle.
Yep some poster actually tried to sell that one based on the cars instant MPG gauge. Why don't you look up who that was and question him about his MPG claims.
lol.gif




Lol is that the same as more mpg coasting with the engine off, then braggin about it? I read some pretty cool stuff here, like driving at 4000 rpm+ for 20 mins or something like that to clean up a DI engine. Tough to do in most areas, and I wouldn't want to do it with an auto trans in a lower gear for that long, but what do I know. lol
 
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Originally Posted By: rockydee
Originally Posted By: Trav
How about i got more MPG at idle.
Yep some poster actually tried to sell that one based on the cars instant MPG gauge. Why don't you look up who that was and question him about his MPG claims.
lol.gif




Lol is that the same as more mpg coasting with the engine off, then braggin about it? I read some pretty cool stuff here, like driving at 4000 rpm+ for 20 mins or something like that to clean up a DI engine. Tough to do in most areas, and I wouldn't want to do it with an auto trans in a lower gear for that long, but what do I know. lol


Not sure why it would be difficult to hold 4000rpm anywhere that consistent speeds can be maintained, provided the vehicle has some sort of gear selector.

The 3000rpm (not 4000rpm) carbon deposit removal detail is not a myth, and is actually in patent documentation that VW published (see here on the US patent site).

Quote:
An additional approach for reducing the formation of carbon deposits on the intake valves is to increase the intake valve temperature, at least temporarily, since, surprisingly, it was found that any carbon deposits possibly present are removed at temperatures above 380.degree. C. To this end, the intake valve unit, which comprises, among other components, the intake valves and the valve stem guide, is designed with means that hinder heat dissipation in such a way that increased surface temperatures of more than 380.degree. C. develop at least in the area of the neck of the intake valves in at least one predetermined region of the load characteristic diagram of the internal combustion engine. This is illustrated in FIG. 4. The intake valve temperature is above 380.degree. C. in the shaded region 112b of the characteristic diagram. At these temperatures, carbon deposits on the intake valves are removed. This region 112b of the characteristic diagram occurs, for example, at speeds over 3,000 rpm, and in that speed range. extends essentially to full load. Even if the internal combustion engine is not operated most of the time in the region 112b during normal driving operation of a motor vehicle, nevertheless, carbon deposits that could adversely affect the operation of the internal combustion engine cannot build up, since their removal in the shaded region 112b of the characteristic diagram occurs very quickly. For example, operation of the internal combustion engine in this region 112b of the characteristic diagram for a period of, for example, 20 min., is sufficient to remove even a thick layer of carbon deposits. In other words, a routine expressway trip cleans the intake valves sufficiently. In addition, this region of the characteristic diagram can be entered in the course of maintenance or repair work on the internal combustion engine in an automotive workshop.


--Matt
 
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Originally Posted By: mkosem
Originally Posted By: rockydee
Originally Posted By: Trav
How about i got more MPG at idle.
Yep some poster actually tried to sell that one based on the cars instant MPG gauge. Why don't you look up who that was and question him about his MPG claims.
lol.gif




Lol is that the same as more mpg coasting with the engine off, then braggin about it? I read some pretty cool stuff here, like driving at 4000 rpm+ for 20 mins or something like that to clean up a DI engine. Tough to do in most areas, and I wouldn't want to do it with an auto trans in a lower gear for that long, but what do I know. lol


Not sure why it would be difficult to hold 4000rpm anywhere that consistent speeds can be maintained, provided the vehicle has some sort of gear selector.

The 3000rpm (not 4000rpm) carbon deposit removal detail is not a myth, and is actually in patent documentation that VW published (see here on the US patent site).

--Matt


I'm just stating what I read on bitog, it was 4K or 4K+ not 3K. Holding the legal limit @ 4K with an auto trans in a low gear to keep it legal for 20 mins isn't something I'd want to where I'm living. Seems others felt the same. OTOH holding 3k would be pretty easy.

Oops- it was 4,500 rpm that makes it harder. The quote was in one of the DI threads, I can't find it after closing bitog to let my daughter on the laptop.

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral


Is there any accepted preventative for these deposits, other than frequent oil changes with a low-NOACK, carmaker-approved oil?


Yes, keeping the RPMs above 4500 for 20+min every now and again to help prevent and clean.

Prevention is aided with regular injector cleaning, running premium oil and not changing the oil too often.


I think I took this a bit OT. Sorry
 
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Originally Posted By: Trav
So why is VW/Audi still doing the walnut shell blasting?
You can patent anything you like but that doesn't mean it works.


Because their 3000 rpm runs don't always work.
 
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