Kohler Courage XT-6 Question

[chevman4life]

My Husqvarna has the XT-6 engine on it and it three years old. Up until now I haven't had any trouble from it. I run super unleaded from Shell, Stabil Marine, and a little MMO. Again no problems.

This season, it seems to bog down a lot more and when it does it struggles to get back to idle and acts like it's going to die. Sometimes sputters pretty bad. My yard is a decent size and really is making it difficult to mow.

I took the bowl off the carb thinking there might be trash in there and it was spotless. I always run the fuel out after every season and this was the first one I've had trouble. Do ya'll have any thoughts? I really think it's a fuel issue since it acts like it's going to die.

Thoughts, suggestions please.

 

[twouvakind]

Carbs are cheap. Check out OrderTree.com.

 

[twouvakind]

There is an in fuel line filter too if that helps. Bought my Husqvarna from Sears, they fixed it under warranty then the problem returned out of warranty. I'll stay away from Kohler in the future.

 

[Jasonenginetech]

The auto-choke assembly of the early xt-6 was a joke and Kohler reps just roll their eyes when mentioned. I have had several Kohler engines this year that start then die - the carbs all looked spotless. They engines ran great after soaking the carbs in the ultrasonic cleaner.

 

[chevman4life]

Ok, i will try soaking. I sprayed the heck out of it tonight, maybe it will do something.

Yes I will stay away from these engines going forward, bought it before I knew of BITOG. Thought, heck it's a Kohler, it will be great. Unfortunately, not.

 

[bubbatime]

Yeah these engines are a small engine mechanics dream, IE, they are a bad Chinese clone design and are always in the shop. Most likely the Auto choke is malfunctioning (which happens all the time on these) or one of the jets/passages in the carburetor is clogged up with dirt/debris.

Check out the function of the choke first and make sure it is fully open after warming up. Then look into a replacement carb. Don't even bother rebuilding it.

 

[NeilR]

The XT-6 was a failed Kohler product for sure. Like others have said, the Auto Choke is junk. On the other hand the engines they are selling right now are very promising.

My Courage SV590 (discontinued model) is an excellent little engine, nearly 300 hours now, which is a fair bit for a "cheap" consumer grade engine.

 

[Donald]

I have a Kohler Courage on my Airens self propelled mower. It had a small filter inside the fuel line at the fuel tank end. You cannot see it unless you remove the fuel line. I removed it and installed a small inline filter.

Mine has a shroud around the carb and a lot of dried grass got behind the shroud and caused issues with the choke and carb linkage.

Kohler also replaced the carb under warranty.

 

[chevman4life]

Originally Posted By: Donald
I have a Kohler Courage on my Airens self propelled mower. It had a small filter inside the fuel line at the fuel tank end. You cannot see it unless you remove the fuel line. I removed it and installed a small inline filter.

Mine has a shroud around the carb and a lot of dried grass got behind the shroud and caused issues with the choke and carb linkage.

Kohler also replaced the carb under warranty.


I will check out the fuel line. I didn't think mine had it but if you say it's in the line then that's probably why.

I also took off the cover around the carb and it was as you say covered. I stayed the heck out of it, so hopefully that will help.

Thanks!

 

[bubbatime]

Here is the service manual for your engine...

http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/sm_14_690_01.pdf

 

[92saturnsl2]

I don't think there's ever been an auto-choke on a small single-cylinder engine that's ever worked consistently, so I wouldn't say that the Kohler engine is any worse than any Briggs engine in this regard.

Personally, if I see an automatic choke on a lawn mower, I find a different model without it. One more thing to break, and is it really THAT hard to turn a lever to start a cold engine? If you can't figure a choke out, you shouldn't be mowing. Honda has the clever choke lever that returns itself on their GCV/GSV engines, but even it only lasted a year on my mower, and now I have to move the lever back manually-- but I'd rather live with that, than a mower that won't start at all.

I'm curious why you guys think the Kohler XT engines are garbage- It's a clean sheet design by Kohler that others may have copied, not vice versa. People start out slamming them because of where they're made, then everybody parrots that opinion despite never having owned one or seen one up close. If you have, you'll see these are nothing like the countless Chonda clones-- the only thing it shares is an overhead valve-train. Bore / stroke, intake & exhaust valve size, port sizes, etc. are all different.

I own a Honda GCV160 on my mower, a Kohler XT-7 on my pressure washer, and a Briggs 900-series OHV on my rotor-tiller. All engines are in the same "class" but the Kohler offers a crucial feature none of the others do-- cast iron cylinder. Also has a ball bearing supported crank. These are both features commonly only found on "commercial" models. That might be the difference between it lasting 15 years instead of 10. Or it might not make one iota of difference. Either way, I know which one is more durable and that's the one I'll pick every time, all else equal.

I have nothing "bad" to say about any of the engines. All are three years old, all run good and do the job, but the Kohler is the only one that runs truly "flawlessly." The Honda has a random sputter while mowing, where it will dog out for a split second (even with little or no load), then come back up to speed, as if something's wrong with the governor. The Briggs smokes like a steam engine at startup if it sits unused for more than a couple weeks. The Kohler is a trooper. It fires up always in one pull (has a manual choke), never smokes, always reliable and powerful.

Keep in mind I have no brand preference (hence why I own one of each brand), just sharing ACTUAL experience. My Briggs engine (model year 2012) is also made in China for what it's worth.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
I don't think there's ever been an auto-choke on a small single-cylinder engine that's ever worked consistently, so I wouldn't say that the Kohler engine is any worse than any Briggs engine in this regard.

The automatic choke on the Briggs flathead on my Craftsman mower has worked perfectly for something like 7 years. I've never messed with it a single time.

I'm not defending Briggs or jumping on the Kohler-hating in this thread. I was skeptical of the auto choke on this mower but it has worked perfectly.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
I'm not defending Briggs or jumping on the Kohler-hating in this thread. I was skeptical of the auto choke on this mower but it has worked perfectly.


You're probably not the exception, but a good percentage of the time, when there is a no-start problem with a Briggs & Stratton, it's that automatic choke. I know that "most of the repairs" isn't the same thing as "most of the owners". I generally don't prefer automatic chokes...I actually don't prefer chokes at all. I've come to prefer a simple primer bulb.

 

[92saturnsl2]

By no means am I suggesting that working examples of an automatic choke don't exist.

But do ask any small engine repair shop what the most common problem they encounter is, and I bet the overwhelming majority respond with automatic chokes. Briggs engines have far bigger market share than Kohler or Honda, so they tend to get mentioned the most. I don't think their automatic choke is any better/worse than the others. They've been available on Briggs engines for ages, so I tend to think they've had more time to get it right.

 

[NeilR]

The only reason I consider the XT-6 (and other XTs with auto choke) to be a failed product is simply the auto choke being a total pain. Models with regular chokes are great little engines, as most Kohlers are.

Kohler impresses me continually with their trend of adding commercial features to consumer engines.

I have nothing against any brand OPE in particular.

 

[PhilsSmallEngine]

Kohler is the reason I'm no longer a Toro/Lawn Boy dealer. After dealing with their Courage junk and Toro and Kohler's horrible customer service personally, I ditched them. At least Ariens allows me to not offer their classic series with the garbage Kohler engines on them.

The poor representative still calls me to rejoin but they won't give me the ability to deny service of their small Kohler junk. They are the Windows XP of small engines. Nothing but headaches for the owner and tons of money and customer aggravation for the repair center.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Originally Posted By: PhilsSmallEngine
Kohler is the reason I'm no longer a Toro/Lawn Boy dealer. After dealing with their Courage junk and Toro and Kohler's horrible customer service personally, I ditched them. At least Ariens allows me to not offer their classic series with the garbage Kohler engines on them.

The poor representative still calls me to rejoin but they won't give me the ability to deny service of their small Kohler junk. They are the Windows XP of small engines. Nothing but headaches for the owner and tons of money and customer aggravation for the repair center.


Can you elaborate? These statements are pretty vague. My experience as a consumer is the polar opposite. My Kohler engine has been put through the ringer on my pressure washer and is still the best running engine I have of the three brands.

On my pressure washer, the hose has a small leak, so the thing goes from full throttle, back to idle, back to full throttle constantly, which I'm sure isn't good for the engine or governor. To avoid this, I run it at 100% duty cycle, then shut it off while I soap down / scrub the vehicle / the restart and repeat. None of the other engines (Honda on mower, Briggs on roto-tiller) are subjected to this type of abuse.

Three years and running perfect. I will continue to sing Kohler praise, as I will my Briggs and Honda motors, as they haven't really let me down either. Just some minor issues with the others (Briggs and Honda) that I can live with...

 

[PhilsSmallEngine]

Well here is how the story goes. Wall-O-Text coming.

In ~2009 or so, my Toro rep was telling me about the new lineup for their 20" rear drives that added the new Kohler Courage XT. In 2010, they flooded Home Depot and Lowes with them in both Toro and Lawn Boy flavors. Same exact mowers at the same exact price with just a different paint job. In April through June 2011, I was pulling in 4+ of these every week that wouldn't start. All but one looked reasonably treated and they almost all had the exact same story of about 14-25 hours of runtime and then it wouldn't start anymore.

In order for my shop to process a warranty claim with Kohler, you need to mail them the entire carburetor, they would inspect, and send you a new one. This took up to 30 days (I loved storing tons of dead Kohlers). In every single case, Kohler denied the warranty service with a vague debris inside the carburetor claim. I had to deal with many angry customers with Kohler's predetermined rate of $91 for the carb, shipping and labor they charged for a claim. I wasn't even charging to put the new carbs on because I was skeptical. I called a few other small Toro dealers in the area and they all gave me the same story I was dealing with.

I contacted Toro about honoring their 2 year guaranteed start warranty and they used Kohler's denial as an excuse to get out of their guarantee.

I kept thinking to myself, there is no way that every one of these had debris in them with a screen located in the filler neck, an inline filter at the bottom of the tank, and a large paper element air cleaner. It's not possible for such a coincidence. I decided to investigate myself and bought the Lawn Boy 10605 for my own personal use to try them out. 17 hours over a season later, mine too failed.

Armed with a camcorder on a tripod, I took the carburetor off, disassembled it, verified there was no debris in it and that the failed component was the inlet needle hole was getting clogged with the the varnish remainder of evaporated gas (no shutoff valve) making the needle stick. Finished reassembling and shipped it off to Kohler. Denied. Debris in carburetor. I was using the machine the way an average consumer would have. One of the first things I would have done is put a shutoff valve on the fuel line to minimize this risk.

I called Toro and demanded the rep and a Kohler engineer needs to be at my shop. I managed to get the rep in and an engineer via Skype. I showed them the video and my documentation. The engineer claimed I doctored an uncut 20 minute video. I asked if that was Kohler's official position and he told me, "Yes." I turned to the Toro rep and asked him how Toro was going to handle this. He said it's Kohler's decision and I told him to get his garbage out of my shop by tomorrow or it goes in the dumpster and close my account effective immediately. Hasty on my part, but I don't regret the decision.

From what I hear, Kohler changed their tune soon after (probably a big lawsuit) and stopped denying every single claim. I don't know if it was our area Kohler parts center or it was consistently going on throughout their network. That is why I can't stand by or ever recommend the Kohler Courage XT series. If Kohler's support of their building products is an indicator, it was like that for all of them. I don't harbor ill will toward Toro, but I just wasn't liking their stuff and the quality drop when they jumped in bed with the big box stores. I needed that little nudge to justify dropping them.

 

[chevman4life]

Well thought I had mine working better after cleaning the carb and changing out small inline filter after draining the gas. Found no debris. Ran fine after that but today we like to never finished mowing due to it acting like it was about to die even just sitting and not mowing any think grass. I give up! I guess at this point I can order a new carb and try it out. Crazy, first issue I've had with it.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Originally Posted By: PhilsSmallEngine
Well here is how the story goes. Wall-O-Text coming.


Thank you for telling that story. I appreciate people taking the time to share real world experience, especially a shop that sees many of these machines. To me, advertising is nothing until I try it or hear from others.

Maybe I received the exception, or perhaps the XT-7 model is different from the XT-6... I don't know. What I do know is that the pressure washer has been stored for winter at least two times without any additive, and it starts right up the subsequent spring. It is quiet, powerful, and reliable. Not much else I look for in a single cylinder engine.

I'm not trying to sell Kohler engines.. I love starting my Honda, Briggs, and Kohler motors each for the task at hand. Each engine has their quirks (honestly hard to define one on the Kohler, but I'm only one customer), but I wouldn't put them down unless something put them out of service. And that hasn't happened with either brand in over 3 years now...