In tank additives for DI

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Too late to edit. That 100:1 figure is extremely conservative I'm sure. It was just to bring out a point.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

I drive plenty, and have been since the 1970's, and yes I'm fit. A few times a month these DI threads keep popping up. I'd guess for every DI car there's maybe 100 EFI cars, yet percent wise there are more people asking for fixes for DI than EFI. They'll get it ironed out. IMO and the opinions of a few experts I spoken with it's not quite there yet.


You can also shoot Trav a PM he runs a fuel injector cleaning business let him tell you his professional observations about DI.


You confuse people looking for preventative measures for actual problems. I don't see many threads on actual valve deposits on here at all.

Those that get the deposits can easily burn them off if they choose to.
 
Read the threads, if there weren't any problems we wouldn't be having these discussions a few times a month.

Shoot Trav a PM too.
 
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I have read them. Have you? Lots of concerned people with very few actual incidents.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Those that get the deposits can easily burn them off if they choose to.

Not true in all cases. Way too broad a brush with that statement IMO.
Look at this then tell me how running the engine at 3K for 20 min is going to clean this mess up.
If that had even the most remote chance of working i think VW/Audi and others would be recommending it as preventive maintenance.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/336352-Audi-FSI-Engine-Carbon-Build-up-Megathread

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/05/ask-an-engineer-gdi-problems-in-a-nutshell

http://www.dailytech.com/Direct+Injected...rticle21962.htm

http://www.munichmotorsport.com/wordpress/?page_id=601

I have a few Di injectors from hi revving marine engines that are damaged beyond repair and they see 5,000 RPM for extended period.
Because your car isn't having the issue yet you cant claim anything will work on all engines.
 
I think I get the issue with the valves in DI engines gunking up. Port fuel injectors spray the mist into the cylinder through the intake valve. So the valve gets a nice spray of fuel, which should contain the detergents to remove whatever deposits attach up there after an explosion.

But with a DI engine, the injector is right there in the cylinder and bypasses the intake valve. It can create a more efficient/even fuel mist, but it's no longer spraying down the valves.

I suppose a little of the fuel still manages to get to the valves, but that might not be adequate to prevent buildup of crud.

Of course there are some concepts of valve materials that will resist buildup, but that's not tested. The traditional method of spraying down the valves with fuel mist works. I've heard of secondary injectors. And maybe not even one at each cylinder, but just one for each bank of cylinders.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
I have read them. Have you? Lots of concerned people with very few actual incidents.


Actually I did read up on it, a lot. I also discussed it with an expert in the field, Trav. That's why I feel the way I do about the system. It is still evolving and maybe in another few years will be as problem free as EFI currently is with regard to valve deposits, etc. I will say some DI engines are much better than others.
 
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Originally Posted By: y_p_w
How do you avoid it these days? There are just too many cars with DI engines.

I do rather like the idea of a secondary injector to simply spray down the valves. If the detergent is strong enough, it wouldn't have to be much. I think some of the injector patterns are designed to try and get some of the spray mist to the valves.


I have been predicting the use of a hybrid system for this problem for years, long before one appeared on the market. Its the only real way.
They cant sell a vehicle mass market and expect the owners to install catch cans and drive the car like a lunatic on crack every so often to keep the thing clean, these are not viable solutions.

I can see a simple throttle body type FI taking over for around town, cold start and low speed operation.
Then let the DI kick in when more power is needed and cruising when the engine is warmed up.
They almost have it now it just needs to be simplified. It going to happen but this technology is going through a lot of redevelopment and i don't want to be a guinea pig.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Those that get the deposits can easily burn them off if they choose to.

Not true in all cases. Way too broad a brush with that statement IMO.
Look at this then tell me how running the engine at 3K for 20 min is going to clean this mess up.
If that had even the most remote chance of working i think VW/Audi and others would be recommending it as preventive maintenance.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/336352-Audi-FSI-Engine-Carbon-Build-up-Megathread

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/05/ask-an-engineer-gdi-problems-in-a-nutshell

http://www.dailytech.com/Direct+Injected...rticle21962.htm

http://www.munichmotorsport.com/wordpress/?page_id=601

I have a few Di injectors from hi revving marine engines that are damaged beyond repair and they see 5,000 RPM for extended period.
Because your car isn't having the issue yet you cant claim anything will work on all engines.


3k doesn't cut. VW specifically stated 4,500+ RPMs. And yes, it does work, has been documented with photos to work.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: badtlc
I have read them. Have you? Lots of concerned people with very few actual incidents.


Actually I did read up on it, a lot. I also discussed it with an expert in the field, Trav. That's why I feel the way I do about the system. It is still evolving and maybe in another few years will be as problem free as EFI currently is with regard to valve deposits, etc. I will say some DI engines are much better than others.


So you are giving up on your claim about threads on this forum with people having all these problems? That is progress.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: badtlc
I have read them. Have you? Lots of concerned people with very few actual incidents.


Actually I did read up on it, a lot. I also discussed it with an expert in the field, Trav. That's why I feel the way I do about the system. It is still evolving and maybe in another few years will be as problem free as EFI currently is with regard to valve deposits, etc. I will say some DI engines are much better than others.


So you are giving up on your claim about threads on this forum with people having all these problems? That is progress.


Why not read what I said, I was pretty clear. Or challenge the expert on the topic Trav, he posted links, read them. Then let us know if the technology is ready for prime time.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Those that get the deposits can easily burn them off if they choose to.

Not true in all cases. Way too broad a brush with that statement IMO.
Look at this then tell me how running the engine at 3K for 20 min is going to clean this mess up.
If that had even the most remote chance of working i think VW/Audi and others would be recommending it as preventive maintenance.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/336352-Audi-FSI-Engine-Carbon-Build-up-Megathread

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/05/ask-an-engineer-gdi-problems-in-a-nutshell

http://www.dailytech.com/Direct+Injected...rticle21962.htm

http://www.munichmotorsport.com/wordpress/?page_id=601

I have a few Di injectors from hi revving marine engines that are damaged beyond repair and they see 5,000 RPM for extended period.
Because your car isn't having the issue yet you cant claim anything will work on all engines.


3k doesn't cut. VW specifically stated 4,500+ RPMs. And yes, it does work, has been documented with photos to work.


Why are they still cleaning with walnut shells then?
Why are the cars that see these RPM's for longer than 20 minutes on a regular basis still having problems?
Is there a TSB that says no blasting needed just take it out and drive it at this RPM for this many minutes?
How do you bring the rear of a sodium filled valve up to those kind of temperatures when it is designed to dissipate heat?

If you need to do this sort of nonsense to any any engine to keep it running properly its poor design.
As i said before you cannot claim this will work with all engines. If that were really the case this would not be as big an issue for the manufacturers as it is.
Can you post some VW/Audi documentation to substantiate your claim.

Another point is its just not the rear of the valve that accumulates deposits its the area in the intake channel around the valve. You cannot get the head up the sort of temp you would need to burn it off, its liquid cooled.

Even in Germany where 4500+ RPM for 20 min and much longer is done on a daily basis in many cases they are still having problems.

Threads like this one are common.

http://www.1erforum.de/bmw-135i/reinigun...ung-113320.html

Sorry badtlc your casual easy approach to this issue is not realistic.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Those that get the deposits can easily burn them off if they choose to.
 
I have a 2012 Hyundai veloster. It has a gamma di engine. At about 40,000 miles I noticed the engine was knocking bad. I took the car to Hyundai and they did a bg44 intake cleaning. It worked for about 2 days then I noticed the car making that sound again. ps I had to pay for that service. Even though the tech told me that the di engines have an issue I still had to pay. So I took the car back to them and the Hyundai service manager said sorry but theres nothing they can do , they tried with bg44 and it didn't work , I was like [censored] did I pay for then. Also I use shell or exxon gas 90 percent of the time with a tectron cleaning hear and there. So top tier fuel isn't the answer like they tell you it is. After I left Hyundai I stopped at autozone and picked up two bottles of tectron and put one of them in the tank and filled up. ran the tank empty. Then I did it again the next fill up. Seems to be working now just fine. The cars got 45,000 miles now and im running another batch of tectron and all is fine. my plan is too use tectron 2 times per oci and hopefully I wont have to get scammed my dealer anymore.
 
Originally Posted By: waltywalt
I have a 2012 Hyundai veloster. It has a gamma di engine. At about 40,000 miles I noticed the engine was knocking bad. I took the car to Hyundai and they did a bg44 intake cleaning. It worked for about 2 days then I noticed the car making that sound again. ps I had to pay for that service. Even though the tech told me that the di engines have an issue I still had to pay. So I took the car back to them and the Hyundai service manager said sorry but theres nothing they can do , they tried with bg44 and it didn't work , I was like [censored] did I pay for then. Also I use shell or exxon gas 90 percent of the time with a tectron cleaning hear and there. So top tier fuel isn't the answer like they tell you it is. After I left Hyundai I stopped at autozone and picked up two bottles of tectron and put one of them in the tank and filled up. ran the tank empty. Then I did it again the next fill up. Seems to be working now just fine. The cars got 45,000 miles now and im running another batch of tectron and all is fine. my plan is too use tectron 2 times per oci and hopefully I wont have to get scammed my dealer anymore.


Posts like this, reading on the www. and speaking with people who know is why I feel the way I do about DI. The technology is still evolving, and will eventually be as reliable or even more reliable than EFI. It's not there yet that's all I'm saying.

The Techron might help because you probably have carbon in the combustion chambers. You might be better off with the 3M kit [3M08963] to keep it at bay. It will be cheaper than going to the dealer. Check it out at Amazon and watch the how to video. HTH
 
Also when I spoke to the tech that actually did the bg44 cleaning on my veloster he said don't baby the car. Get it out on the highway and drive it hard once in awhile. Get the rpms up atleast to 3000 for 20 minutes . My v has the dct tranny so I can put the car in 4th or 5th gear and set the cruise and do that no problem. I looked at him and said sorry man but im not running my car like that. So for me its use the tectron stuff alot and pray it works. I figured it will cost the same to do the in tank method then if I just bring it to them every 40,000 miles. I was thinking about getting in touch with Hyundai corp and complaining about it but im sure ill get the answer im not looking for.
 
Originally Posted By: waltywalt
Get the rpms up atleast to 3000 for 20 minutes. My v has the dct tranny so I can put the car in 4th or 5th gear and set the cruise and do that no problem. I looked at him and said sorry man but im not running my car like that.

Why not?
 
A lot of people I talk to say they run a maintenance dose of tectron at each fill up. To me that's a pain in the rear end so im just gonna do the twice per oci method.
 
Pete why would I wanna put any more stress on my car. Im sure its not good for the car to do that. Theres a reason why the car has 5th and 6th gear. Why would I wanna run it in 4th gear and get [censored] gas mileage and make the engine and tranny run hotter then need be. I know they say it will help with the carbon issue but no thanks. Ill keep babying my car. I just don't think its smart to abuse other aspects of the car for a issue that Hyundai needs to figure out. Now if Hyundai puts it in writing that its okay to do this then I might think different.
 
Holy cow, wallywalt, that thing is carboning up FAST!!

Have you tried Shell V-Power or BP Invigorate gas yet??

Keep us informed...
 
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