Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts

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My engine is quiet (that's saying something for the normally noisy Testastretta) and likes to rev on this oil, but for some reason the gearbox seems to not like it. The Ducati gear box is clanky by nature but this oil accents it. And it wants to stick fairly often on the 3-2 and 2-1 downshift requiring an extra firm mash. Have heard of a few other Duc riders who report shift quality issues on Motul 300V, which is also a full ester syn oil. The head scratcher is why does the engine seem to "like" it but the gearbox doesn't? Oil is Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 full ester synthetic. Oh, one other thing about the Silkolene: clutch engagement is super smooth, to the point of making me feel like the king of slow full lock parking lot u-turns. You know, the rear brake clutch slip 180's req'd back in the day when we took the MSF basic course....
 
Because engines and gearboxes are completely different operating environments. When space allows, they usually have individual sumps filled with an oil tailored to them. Just keep trying different oils till one works well in both the engine and gearbox. If your bike can use a 40wt, that opens up most HDEOs, and many people have good results with those in motorcycles.
 
Yes to both of these. If you're looking for a high quality synthetic, Red Line is worth your consideration. Dave is very helpful when it comes to these issues. Give them an email or call.

It may be worth trying a short run of some plain ol' Rotella T Triple 15w-40 just to see what happens.

Originally Posted By: Marco620
Tried redline motorcycle oil? Call Dave at tech support for redline oil. He can probably tell you what might be going on. Good luck

Originally Posted By: NeuroticHapiSnak
Because engines and gearboxes are completely different operating environments. When space allows, they usually have individual sumps filled with an oil tailored to them. Just keep trying different oils till one works well in both the engine and gearbox. If your bike can use a 40wt, that opens up most HDEOs, and many people have good results with those in motorcycles.
 
clutch grippy oil vs clutch slippery oil ?

grin.gif
 
The clutch engages smooth yet positive and strong. No slippage under full throttle runs.



Oils tried and observations:

Factory fill 10W40 mineral oil - Smooth quiet engine, smooth gearbox, smooth clutch.

Spectro Platinum 4 Ultra 15W50 - moderate engine vibes but quiet, smooth gearbox, smooth positive clutch. PAO / ester blend synthetic. Engine felt a little ball less at high rpm.

Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (JASO MA) - smooth but noisy engine, smooth gearbox, slightly grabby clutch. VISOM / PAO / Aklylated Naphthalene blend (Grp III+/IV/V blend) synthetic.

Amsoil MCT 10W40 (JASO MA2) - more engine vibes than Mobil 1 and just as noisy, smooth gearbox, smooth positive clutch. PAO / ester blend synthetic

Shell Rotella T 15W40 HDEO (JASO MA2) - worst engine vibes of any oil so far + engine noisy, smooth gearbox, smooth clutch. Conventional. Tried it because everyone raves about it, was not impressed upon use, drained prematurely to get rid of it.

Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 (JASO MA2)- smooth quiet engine, clonky gearbox, smooth positive clutch. Full ester synthetic.


For those unfamiliar with the Ducati Testastretta engine, it is a 1198cc 90 degree twin, liquid cooled and oil cooled, DOHC 4 valves per cyl. Notorious for a fair amount of mechanical noise when running.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
The clutch engages smooth yet positive and strong. No slippage under full throttle runs.



Oils tried and observations:

Factory fill 10W40 mineral oil - Smooth quiet engine, smooth gearbox, smooth clutch.

Spectro Platinum 4 Ultra 15W50 - moderate engine vibes but quiet, smooth gearbox, smooth positive clutch. PAO / ester blend synthetic. Engine felt a little ball less at high rpm.

Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (JASO MA) - smooth but noisy engine, smooth gearbox, slightly grabby clutch. VISOM / PAO / Aklylated Naphthalene blend (Grp III+/IV/V blend) synthetic.

Amsoil MCT 10W40 (JASO MA2) - more engine vibes than Mobil 1 and just as noisy, smooth gearbox, smooth positive clutch. PAO / ester blend synthetic

Shell Rotella T 15W40 HDEO (JASO MA2) - worst engine vibes of any oil so far + engine noisy, smooth gearbox, smooth clutch. Conventional. Tried it because everyone raves about it, was not impressed upon use, drained prematurely to get rid of it.

Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 (JASO MA2)- smooth quiet engine, clonky gearbox, smooth positive clutch. Full ester synthetic.


For those unfamiliar with the Ducati Testastretta engine, it is a 1198cc 90 degree twin, liquid cooled and oil cooled, DOHC 4 valves per cyl. Notorious for a fair amount of mechanical noise when running.


It sounds like you and your Duck like the factory fill best. So why not just run that?
 
Rotella was the short run oil right before Silkolene. I wonder if there is any chance the residual Rotella (Grp II) is messing up the Silkolene (Grp V)? Thorough drain but there is always residual old oil left from cling and pooling. New OEM filter was used for the change.
 
I have a Victory Cross Country Tour and it has a Air/Oil cooled 1731cc V-twin that shares the engine oil with the transmission.

I use Redline 20w-50 in it and it shifts nice for the entire 5,000 mile oil change intervals the owners manual calls for.

Victory specs their engines for 20w-40 semi-synthetic oil but the Victory brand 20w-40 semi-synthetic is priced like a full synthetic and most who stick with it end up changing the Victory branded oil at 2,500 to 3,000 miles due to rough shifting developing.

I have had a total of three UOA's done on this engine while using the Redline 20w-50 and the Victory oil only crowd will tell you that you are going to blow up the engine because Victory designed it for 20w-40 and full synthetic will cause your clutch to slip, yet I have used full synthetic in this bike since first oil change that was done at 479 miles and have never had the clutch slip.

The UOA's all read fine with good numbers showing nothing unusual with wear.

I figure if I am going to pay full synthetic price for oil I might as well buy real full synthetic oil.

After all Victory oil being a semi-synthetic means it is mostly a group II oil with just enough Synthetic added to call it a semi-synthetic but they charge full synthetic prices for it and I just can't justify paying synthetic oil prices for what is really a group II oil with some synthetic added.

Victory is making money hand over fist as the vast majority of Victory owners on Victory forums have fallen for the myth that they must use only the Victory brand oil or they will blow up their engines or their clutch will slip.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
what in the additive package would make the shifting hard? Or lack of what?

Friction modifiers, maybe?
 
It would appear that you are determined to try every high priced oil in the attempt to find oil performance equivalent to the factory fill 10w-40 mineral oil.
 
How about you tell me what the factory fill oil was then. That particular question has been debated in the Ducati forums and there is no particular answer. Based on info from one or more UOA's on samples captured from the factory fill draining at the 600 mile 1st service, it is believed to be 10W40 mineral. Some have said 10W40 but Shell Advance Ultra 4 syn not mineral. Same problem, since Shell Advance Ultra 4 cannot be sourced in the US.

Next up I may try a 10W50, perhaps Motorex, which is another PAO / ester blend synthetic. Both the Mobil 1 10W40 and Amsoil 10W40 got the privilege of being in the engine last summer and both convinced me they are either just "noisy" oils or 10W40 is too thin for the summer climate here (even though the manual blesses 10W40 with no upper temp limit). The valve train clatter at idle in traffic in the heat got to be a little much on those two oils. Not that the desmo valve train is ever really quiet when compared to a traditional valve train design.

From the manual:

Fig203_zps2301d2b0.jpg
 
I agree with Sunruh and would give either Maxima Extra 4 or Motul's 300V a try, as they both have either the 10W40 or 15W50 viscosites to choose from (Sunruh had great success with Maxima, and a recent VOA/UOA of Motul's also did superb).

Although I'm not 100% sure, I'm nearly positive the Factory Fill in Ducati (along with their recommended oil to utilize) is Shell's Advance oil that isn't available here in the States. Shell has a habit of teaming up with high-performance Italian manufacturers and has been with Ducati since 1999 providing lubricants and fuels, along with the first Ferrari that came out of their factory.
 
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Motorex 10w50 is a good oil when used on my FA. Shift smoothly all the way to 5k km according to my butt feel. Has been using it for a few times in my FA.

LR, I can send you a case of Shell Advance Ultra fully syn if you willing to pay for shipping. They are selling about $52 Ringgit in Shell petrol in Malaysia. Shell engine oil are not popular in Singapore. A lot of bikers loves Motul 300V.
 
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