Mann ML-1015 (Equinox 2.4 I4 DI) problem

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I purchased (6) Mann ML-1015 oil filters in December 2012 from Rock Auto. These are for use in my 2010 Chevrolet Equinox 2.4L I4. I normally change my own oil, but just took the vehicle to the dealer to start an oil consumption test, which requires them to change the oil and filter to establish a baseline. The dealer is accusing me of never changing the filter, as they claimed the Mann ML-1015 filter that they removed was deteriorated to the point that the pleated media had holes in it. They gave me the filter that they removed and it is deformed into a slight hourglass shape, with a hole in one of the valleys of the pleated media. There is also a small amount of sludge visable in some of the pleat valleys. This is a cartridge filter, not a spin-on. The vehicle has 37,000 miles on it and has had the oil and filter changed every 4000 miles on average.

This was the second ML-1015 filter that had been installed in the vehicle. I don't recall noticing any problem with the first one when I removed it 3241 miles ago, but that's not to say that it didn't have a similar problem that I didn't notice.

I'd like to know if there are any known issues with this particular Mann ML-1015 filter in my application.

I'd like to direct this to Mann, but it's impossible to find any technical/customer support contact information on the web site.

Any thoughts?
 
I think the dealer is full of it and trying any angle to void your oil consumption claims. They saw an aftermarket filter and are trying to use that to void your claim. This is not legal. Mann filters are a good product too, by the way.
 
I seem to recall reading that some of the aftermarket filters for the Ecotec are slightly longer than they should be, causing them to be crushed when installed. I think the recommendation is to use an ACDelco filter in these engines.
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
They saw an aftermarket filter and are trying to use that to void your claim. This is not legal.


It's not legal to "void a warranty" because of an aftermarket product, but if they can demonstrate that an aftermarket product CAUSED the problem for which the vehicle was brought in, they have every right to refuse the claim. I'm not saying that the aftermarket product did or didn't cause the oil consumption issues in this case, because I simply don't know. But in general, they can refuse a claim if they can show that the use of a non-GM part caused the failure. It would then be on the owner to seek repair reimbursement or coverage from the manufacturer of that aftermarket part.
 
I do not believe this to be an 'aftermarket' filter issue or even Mann specific. Doing some research, the ML-1015 appears to the same cartridge used on ecotec engines like Cobalt etc. There have been many crush looking and slightly twisted cartridges posted here (bitog) from differing brands. A google search including image search will show this to be true. Below find two links, one to a Bitog thread about this specific application cartridge from different brands. The second to a Saturn Sky discussion on the same topic. Note thepictures and comments in both. The Sky link makes it seem that this occurrence is not out of the ordinary at all, and the target cartridge was installed by a Saturn Authorized Service Provider.

Based on what I've seen and read here and elsewhere about this cartridge application, I do believe it sounds like the dealer is looking for something to place blame on, in this case the filter is an easy target. My .02

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=921466

http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f2/oil-filter-defect-distortion-39204/
 
Here is an AC Delco from my CTS, same hour glass shape. While not the same filter model, distorting seems to be the norm. Every filter I have changed in the 3.6 comes out looking like this.

MVC-005X.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I think the dealer is full of it and trying any angle to void your oil consumption claims. They saw an aftermarket filter and are trying to use that to void your claim. This is not legal. Mann filters are a good product too, by the way.



At this point the dealer hasn't denied me anything, and we have started the oil consumption test. They claim to have never seen a filter in that condition and were just questioning how long it had been in there. I have receipts for all the filters and oil so I'm hoping I won't have a problem if they do determine I have an oil consumption problem.

Here's a link to some pictures of the Mann filter:

Mann ML-1015 Filter
 
I can't comment on the Mann filter, but based on the filters I've pulled out of my Cobalt and my parents Cobalt, the crush/twist/flattening is common. sayjac gave a great outline of what I've seen/read above. The last (which was also my first oil change as owner) one that I took out of our car looked much worse than the one in the Sky link above, though I found no tears/holes. That was a pronto with under 5K miles on it.

Add: After seeing the filter pics you just put up - I still say the twist is not that uncommon, it looks similar, maybe slightly better than the last Pronto I saw.

The hole is different. Was there one hole or two? Looks like at least one of the pics it could be an issue of the plastic cage, but the cage is not unique to the Mann, and there are not many reports of holes/blowouts in this application specifically AFAIK.
 
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I've had filters (Purolator Classic) with over 10k miles on them come out of my son's '03 Cavalier look better than that. The hourglass is normal, but the pleat distortion is excessive....and that's one of the biggest holes I've ever seen in any filter media. Not good. I'd change brands.
 
Did you check your oil level after they did the change?

my "awsome" subaru dealer just overfilled by 12-16oz to start the consumption test..

makes it hard to tell if its using more or less than the 10.5oz/1000miles that the consumption test calls for.

Then I had some punk service writer about 22 telling me maybe I didnt add enough oil when I changed it....

oh thats why it burns 1qt every 1800-2500mi upto 3 per oil change.

Then he was trying to tell me.. "thats how 0w20 is"

then they were making up random [censored] that made no sense..

ps: I took the car back to them and had their "master tech" who over filled it drain some out.

Seems to me if I was a MASTER TECH. and I was doing an oil change to start a consumption test.. I'd make sure it was full. and not overfull.. otherwise the test is going to be wrong.... unless thats the whole idea.(not fail the test because it was overfull)
 
That hole makes that filter an easy target in the blame game. I would certainly save the filter in a plastic Ziploc bag, just in case you need it in the future. At the very least, Mann should want that back for their own process improvement...
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
Did you check your oil level after they did the change?

my "awsome" subaru dealer just overfilled by 12-16oz to start the consumption test..

makes it hard to tell if its using more or less than the 10.5oz/1000miles that the consumption test calls for.

Then I had some punk service writer about 22 telling me maybe I didnt add enough oil when I changed it....

oh thats why it burns 1qt every 1800-2500mi upto 3 per oil change.

Then he was trying to tell me.. "thats how 0w20 is"

then they were making up random [censored] that made no sense..

ps: I took the car back to them and had their "master tech" who over filled it drain some out.

Seems to me if I was a MASTER TECH. and I was doing an oil change to start a consumption test.. I'd make sure it was full. and not overfull.. otherwise the test is going to be wrong.... unless thats the whole idea.(not fail the test because it was overfull)


Measuring is hard...you have to convert quarts to ounces and all of that advanced math stuff.
smirk.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
They saw an aftermarket filter and are trying to use that to void your claim. This is not legal.


It's not legal to "void a warranty" because of an aftermarket product, but if they can demonstrate that an aftermarket product CAUSED the problem for which the vehicle was brought in, they have every right to refuse the claim. I'm not saying that the aftermarket product did or didn't cause the oil consumption issues in this case, because I simply don't know. But in general, they can refuse a claim if they can show that the use of a non-GM part caused the failure. It would then be on the owner to seek repair reimbursement or coverage from the manufacturer of that aftermarket part.



You are correct. I should have been more specific.
 
Just looked at the pictures of that Mann filter. It looks like somebody poked their finger thru it and messed up the pleats. Just my opinion but I still think the dealer messed up the filter before showing you.
 
This cartridge filter probably has an ecore center tube, which means that big chunk of media missing could have went down in to the engine. Is there flaps on the tear what can folded back closed to verify if there is actually a missing chunk of media that could have been ingested by the engine? Doesn't look like it in the photo. Looks like a section of a whole pleat is missing.

DCP_0123.JPG
 
The AC Delco filter I took out of an ecotech looked just as Wavy but no hole. Replaced with Fram Ultra, hoping it holds up better. It seems typical for the ecotech to abuse the filter, with possible link to over torque on the housing causing the extra compression. Apparently torque wrenches are a good idea for these housings. I did not torque the new Ultra cartridge filter but tried mybbest not to strong arm it.
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
The AC Delco filter I took out of an ecotech looked just as Wavy but no hole. Replaced with Fram Ultra, hoping it holds up better. It seems typical for the ecotech to abuse the filter, with possible link to over torque on the housing causing the extra compression. Apparently torque wrenches are a good idea for these housings. I did not torque the new Ultra cartridge filter but tried mybbest not to strong arm it.


I don't think over torquing the filter housing cap is going to crush the filter, as once that cap seats on the engine, adding additional torque really isn't going to make it turn much more at all.

If the cartridge oil filter is getting crushed vertically when installed, then the filter was designed to be too long for the application IMO.
 
Agreed. Cartridge filter in my E430 never had any wavy pleats after in used for up to 12-13k miles, last one was 23k miles(changed oil without changing filter) and looks perfect without any tear nor any debris I can see between pleats.
 
I'll stand by what I posted previously in this thread. Many ecotec cartridges posted here exhibit a compressed and/or twisted appearance upon removal. The twisting compression could well be responsible for the eventual weaken of the media in the pleats, and a breach. Something is going on beyond this specific failure. If one looks a the OEM ecotech filter posted in my first link and first below that was run only 1100 miles and it had the beginnings of the common squished appearance. Imagine what it might have looked like after 4k miles. And this is NOT a Mann but OEM according ot the OP of that thread. Whatever the cause it's happened to many filter of this application, not just Mann.

The second one is also in the linked Sky forum showing a before and after.

IMG_1431.jpg


filter-new-old.jpg
 
^^^ So on that 2nd photo, I'm wondering if anyone accurately measured between the end caps on the new vs. used filter of the same model to see if there was some "crushing" going on. Or are the pleats just getting wavy from typical use.

If the cartridge is being crushed vertically, you should be able to see that by measuring between the edges of the two end caps and see the distance is less than on a new filter of the same brand/model.
 
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