Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
About 15 years since Honda introduced S2000 in 1999 nobody can match its performance even with current newer technologies.
Anybody 'can match its performance'. The F20/22C is really nothing special. If it impresses you that much, then I dunno what to tell you.
Which production engine other than few hand made Ferrari engines can make more than 120 HP per liter without Super or Turbo charged ? You can talk all you want, but you need some evidences to support your claim.
Those Ferrari engines are several years after Honda break through the 120 HP per liter barrier.
I post my opinion about this because BMW had my respect in their engineering power, same for Audi, and this is related to topic "BMW N20 turbo four cyl.". I expected the auto industry should by now produce high efficient engines that can generate 140-150 HP per liter or more without resorting to turbo charged.
You clearly don't get it. Not only are there multiple production engines that exceed F20s specific peak HP output "per liter", but you still think that's somehow difficult to do.
"Efficient" is a great word, very suggestive, but what do YOU mean be quoting it? Are you talking about thermal efficiency, or volumetric efficiency? Do you know the difference between the two?
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I don't know if it would be awful in a sedan, but it would take a properly geared manual trans or programmed auto to make it livable and it wouldn't be for everyone.
I do suspect that the S2000 2.2L motor probably makes very similar low end torque to a 4cyl Accord which lots of people are happy with, so it might be OK in that weight of vehicle, but for most people, they would rather have the torque of the V6 to get 240hp, than the handling benefits of a lighter front end.
Suspect no longer, there are dyno charts abound.
And no, lol, don't fool yourself. F20C would be frikkin awful in a sedan, dude. It can barely get out of it's own way pre-crossover, can you imagine driving around all day in traffic at 6000rpm+ ALL THE TIME?
There would be plenty of noise all the time, that thrashing horrible sounding valvetrain all the time. You will begin to despise rotational inertial energy, when you have to rev to 8K each time you want to move off the line. You'll hate the fuel economy of always having to operate on the high cam, and how FUEL INEFFICIENT the engine is forced to run, all the time, just to maintain enough RPMs to multiply a modest amount of torque into the required work to move your BMW. It would be absolutely terrible to drive. Trying to cruise at 4500rpm at 65 just to keep the engine making any non-dangerous amount of power for maybe a lane change. Well, I shouldn't speak for you. Maybe you'd prefer a loud, noisy sedan with zero pedal response, low maximum torque and bad fuel economy, IDK.
I swear, it's like kids who think you can eat chocolate all day as their only meal and wont get sick and tired of it. Chocolate is the best food and no high end restaurant has an all chocolate entree, therefore they suck and can't replicate it. lol
No sooner would I want a Hayabusa engine in my Mercedes Benz...... or a K24 in my 1/2 ton pickup. Again, at times like this, I'm so glad engineers package vehicles, and not consumers. Has anyone seen the old Simpsons episode where Homer designs his own car?
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
About 15 years since Honda introduced S2000 in 1999 nobody can match its performance even with current newer technologies.
Anybody 'can match its performance'. The F20/22C is really nothing special. If it impresses you that much, then I dunno what to tell you.
Which production engine other than few hand made Ferrari engines can make more than 120 HP per liter without Super or Turbo charged ? You can talk all you want, but you need some evidences to support your claim.
Those Ferrari engines are several years after Honda break through the 120 HP per liter barrier.
I post my opinion about this because BMW had my respect in their engineering power, same for Audi, and this is related to topic "BMW N20 turbo four cyl.". I expected the auto industry should by now produce high efficient engines that can generate 140-150 HP per liter or more without resorting to turbo charged.
You clearly don't get it. Not only are there multiple production engines that exceed F20s specific peak HP output "per liter", but you still think that's somehow difficult to do.
"Efficient" is a great word, very suggestive, but what do YOU mean be quoting it? Are you talking about thermal efficiency, or volumetric efficiency? Do you know the difference between the two?
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I don't know if it would be awful in a sedan, but it would take a properly geared manual trans or programmed auto to make it livable and it wouldn't be for everyone.
I do suspect that the S2000 2.2L motor probably makes very similar low end torque to a 4cyl Accord which lots of people are happy with, so it might be OK in that weight of vehicle, but for most people, they would rather have the torque of the V6 to get 240hp, than the handling benefits of a lighter front end.
Suspect no longer, there are dyno charts abound.
And no, lol, don't fool yourself. F20C would be frikkin awful in a sedan, dude. It can barely get out of it's own way pre-crossover, can you imagine driving around all day in traffic at 6000rpm+ ALL THE TIME?
There would be plenty of noise all the time, that thrashing horrible sounding valvetrain all the time. You will begin to despise rotational inertial energy, when you have to rev to 8K each time you want to move off the line. You'll hate the fuel economy of always having to operate on the high cam, and how FUEL INEFFICIENT the engine is forced to run, all the time, just to maintain enough RPMs to multiply a modest amount of torque into the required work to move your BMW. It would be absolutely terrible to drive. Trying to cruise at 4500rpm at 65 just to keep the engine making any non-dangerous amount of power for maybe a lane change. Well, I shouldn't speak for you. Maybe you'd prefer a loud, noisy sedan with zero pedal response, low maximum torque and bad fuel economy, IDK.
I swear, it's like kids who think you can eat chocolate all day as their only meal and wont get sick and tired of it. Chocolate is the best food and no high end restaurant has an all chocolate entree, therefore they suck and can't replicate it. lol
No sooner would I want a Hayabusa engine in my Mercedes Benz...... or a K24 in my 1/2 ton pickup. Again, at times like this, I'm so glad engineers package vehicles, and not consumers. Has anyone seen the old Simpsons episode where Homer designs his own car?
