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#3598658 - 01/13/15 11:18 AM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: JorgeMartins]
dustyroads Offline


Registered: 05/13/13
Posts: 1069
Loc: upstate NY
Hi Jorge. I don't know anything about your little diesel but at least in this latest oil sample everything is in line with universal averages. As of last summer Blackstone mentioned averages were based on 10,300 km and you're fairly close to that. That's a good sign.

However, if Renault had some parts with bad metallurgy they may crack and break apart without warning. Oil analysis can't predict when a piece of metal is fatigued and about to break apart. Nor can oil analysis see big pieces, only real small particles.

The silicon does seem to run high in that Renault engine. Universal averages are at 24 ppm and your latest sample is much higher still. Last summer you said you put in a new air filter but make sure all the seals and fittings are properly secured and not letting any extra dust enter. Some people use a little grease around the edges of the air filter box for help in this area. You may not need it, just make sure all plumbing is a good fit.

Sorry I can't be of more help regarding your concerns with the bearings.
_________________________
2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 96k+
Edge 5W-30 / Fram 10575





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#3598874 - 01/13/15 03:28 PM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: JorgeMartins]
dustyroads Offline


Registered: 05/13/13
Posts: 1069
Loc: upstate NY
Hi Jorge. Is the problem you are concerned about due to bearings just wearing out prematurely as if there's poor lubrication? Or are there parts breaking? You mentioned shells breaking.

Your results show everything to be ok and if you have normal oil pressure I think you're ok right now. I just wondered if you can be more specific about what is happening ( what you're reading about ). Is it bad design, poor lubrication or bad metallurgy? Do you have that info?

Your copper, lead and tin look just fine. I wonder if the problems are gradual or if you are hearing of sudden death because of breakage.
_________________________
2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 96k+
Edge 5W-30 / Fram 10575





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#3599795 - 01/14/15 09:30 AM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: JorgeMartins]
JorgeMartins Offline


Registered: 06/02/14
Posts: 46
Loc: Portugal
Hi dustyroads.

First of all thanks for your help.

It's about an engine model (in my case it's K9K 732 engine type) that is comon for Renault, Dacia and Nissan. Big end bearing shells broke suddenly in about 100.000 Km's to 150.000 km's.

Portuguese Renault makes an engine oil analysis at around 100,000 Km's in France but only to cars that do maintainence on the brand, that's no my case. If there are more particles in the analysis, Renault replaces the parts with no cost to the customer.

The new engines come now with different big end bearing shells, further strengthened.

It's bad design, poor lubrication, bad metallurgy, etc. Too many stories from customers and by the Renault but is sure what mentioned in the previous paragraph. I put new oil in 15.000Km 15,000.

There are reports of cars with this engine range that never gave problems and there are others who happens to 80.000 km's, 100,000 Km's ...

Do you believe that through this kind of analysis i can't discover any abnormal wear of any engine part?

It's a sudden death.

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#3599998 - 01/14/15 12:31 PM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: JorgeMartins]
dustyroads Offline


Registered: 05/13/13
Posts: 1069
Loc: upstate NY
Hi Jorge, yes you can discover abnormal wear to some extent. Your latest sample looks good. No excess bearing wear noted.

I just meant that if the metal fatigues, cracks and suddenly breaks into pieces, then you may not get any notice. If metal is fatigued, it can break anytime without warning.

I would continue to test the oil, and hopefully you will catch a rise in bearing wear, but I'm not certain that you will. I hope so.

I would ask for guidance from an experienced mechanic, familiar with your engine. Sorry I'm not more helpful.
_________________________
2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 96k+
Edge 5W-30 / Fram 10575





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#3600073 - 01/14/15 02:00 PM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: JorgeMartins]
Jetronic Offline


Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 3653
Loc: down in the park
how much are the new shells, and how much for the oil analysis?

I'd opt to renew the shells anyway they cost peanuts usually, but I don't know if you can get the uprated parts from anyone but Renault. As been said, fatigue doesn't show, and to notice a trend for increased wear you need a lot of analysis.
_________________________
AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0w30
Hankook Ventus Prime 2 215/50R17 (front)
Pirelli P7 Cinturato 225/45R17 (rear)

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#3600663 - 01/15/15 07:13 AM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: JorgeMartins]
JorgeMartins Offline


Registered: 06/02/14
Posts: 46
Loc: Portugal
Thanks again dsutyroads and Jetronic.

Jetronic,

The engine oil analysys and shippment costs are 25 USD

Replacing shells cost in Renault whit all parts an new oil, 530 USD. But the problem is not the money, is that i've some opinions from 2/3 mechanical that open the crankcase and replace shells may lead to future problems that may not otherwise exist.

Tow images with damaged shells:






That doesn't happen to all engines, my idea is too make 3/4 oil analysis and if the values stay normal i'll presume that is nothing wrong with the shells.


Edited by JorgeMartins (01/15/15 07:16 AM)

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#3600820 - 01/15/15 09:46 AM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: JorgeMartins]
CT8 Online   content


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11018
Loc: Idaho
look at these pictures of bearing wear. HERE


Edited by CT8 (01/15/15 09:47 AM)
_________________________
"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf

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#3600854 - 01/15/15 10:16 AM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: CT8]
JorgeMartins Offline


Registered: 06/02/14
Posts: 46
Loc: Portugal
Hi CT8.


I've already seen them.

Thanks.

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#3600987 - 01/15/15 12:09 PM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: JorgeMartins]
Jetronic Offline


Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 3653
Loc: down in the park
if replacing isn't an option, I'd sell now.
_________________________
AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0w30
Hankook Ventus Prime 2 215/50R17 (front)
Pirelli P7 Cinturato 225/45R17 (rear)

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#3601828 - 01/16/15 05:36 AM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: JorgeMartins]
JorgeMartins Offline


Registered: 06/02/14
Posts: 46
Loc: Portugal
Jetonic,

replacing is an option, but i prefer monitoring the engine oil now. That's what Portuguese Renault is doing. Cars with abnormal parts in oil should replace shells.

Regards.

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#3601830 - 01/16/15 05:40 AM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: JorgeMartins]
Blasar Offline


Registered: 01/10/11
Posts: 31
Loc: Portugal
Dear JorgeMartins,

Regarding those results I wouldnīt be worried. Almost all values are on the average side, and only the silicon is (and it was already) above expected. Try to see if thereīs something wrong with the filter housing/air filter.

I donīt think that, looking at the numbers only, that you have a problem, but and as obvious, a mechanical failure can occur without warning in any engine at any given time, but I will leave that to the psychics. grin

Regards.




Edited by Blasar (01/16/15 05:45 AM)
_________________________
Excuse my poor English.

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#3601862 - 01/16/15 06:43 AM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: Blasar]
JorgeMartins Offline


Registered: 06/02/14
Posts: 46
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: Blasar
Dear JorgeMartins,

Regarding those results I wouldnīt be worried. Almost all values are on the average side, and only the silicon is (and it was already) above expected. Try to see if thereīs something wrong with the filter housing/air filter.

I donīt think that, looking at the numbers only, that you have a problem, but and as obvious, a mechanical failure can occur without warning in any engine at any given time, but I will leave that to the psychics. grin

Regards.





Hi Blasar.

I've checkd filter housing/air filter, found nothing.

Do you recommend some kind of air filter or any special measures on that?

Many thanks.

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#3602079 - 01/16/15 10:36 AM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: JorgeMartins]
Blasar Offline


Registered: 01/10/11
Posts: 31
Loc: Portugal
Hi!

Besides all that was already said, my only advice is to choose good quality filters and verify, once more, that the filter housing is tight sealed.

Regards.
_________________________
Excuse my poor English.

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#3603023 - 01/17/15 09:11 AM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: JorgeMartins]
Jetronic Offline


Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 3653
Loc: down in the park
Originally Posted By: JorgeMartins
Jetonic,

replacing is an option, but i prefer monitoring the engine oil now. That's what Portuguese Renault is doing. Cars with abnormal parts in oil should replace shells.

Regards.


one oil analysis at 100k miles isn't monitoring though. you'd need constant oil analysis for that, from fairly new. then the oil analysis cost however becomes equally expensive as the change of the big end shells. the cheapest solution therefor is to replace the bearing shells as a matter of course and be done with it. the next best solution is to sell the car before you get any symptoms, but you'll loose money that way over the bearing shell change.

changing big end bearing shells requires only for the sump to be dropped, can't see how you'll introduce new problems to the engine that way, unless the work done is sub standard. and if you do it yourself, the cost will be much closer to $100. Not worth taking any chance, imo.
_________________________
AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0w30
Hankook Ventus Prime 2 215/50R17 (front)
Pirelli P7 Cinturato 225/45R17 (rear)

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#3605019 - 01/19/15 06:00 AM Re: Used oil analisys on Renault Megane II Break 1.5 D [Re: JorgeMartins]
JorgeMartins Offline


Registered: 06/02/14
Posts: 46
Loc: Portugal
Hi.

I think that monitoring engine oil is always a good option.

Thanks for your opinion Jetronic.

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