Bugatti required oil

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Okay, so the Bugatti-badged VW is apparently exempt from the need to provide for adequate oil cooling?
Got it.
Of course, this engine will rarely if ever actually produce anything close to a thousand horses even in the hands of its most psychotic (or inebriated) owners, but I guess that doesn't matter.
I guess that nobody else remembers that really thick grades are often recommended as band aids.
This VW design is no different, despite its undeniably exotic design and unparalled performance in a street car.
Heck, it'll outrun most purpose-built race cars.
I can't think of a modern purpose-built race engine that needs a sixty grade oil, though, and they actually do get run hard all of the time.
 
Audi has the special 501.01 spec for the R8 GT (a higher output and lighter version of the R8 V10). The only oil on that list is Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60.

Clearly VAG believes it is necessary to run a 60 on their very highest-output motors. I have to assume that on something like the Veyron, this was tested heavily and 10w60 was deliberately chosen. Castrol also provides their service fill so naturally TWS was the only option.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Okay, so the Bugatti-badged VW is apparently exempt from the need to provide for adequate oil cooling?
Got it.

I strongly suggest you read up on the car's development.

It has multiple oil coolers. Adding any more would have required more grille openings, which would increase aerodynamic drag, which would have required more power to achieve the top speed, which would have generated more heat...

There's plenty to criticize about the Veyron, but the competence of the engineering behind it is completely beyond reproach.
 
I don't doubt that this car is a remarkable achivement and it does take a lot of power to push 4000+ lbs to the speeds the car can reach.
Maybe the VW folks should have spent a little more time on weight reduction?
With all those cylinders and turbos and all of the complexity, this engine has a specific output only slightly superior to the simple two liter inline four used in the original Honda S2000, for which any API 10W-30 is recommended.
 
I run a turbo S2000, with 385-407 RWHP, depending on boost levels (summer-winter) and 8500RPM redline (2.2L)

One thing has become clear, 5W-40 is not sufficiently viscous to protect the engine. The loads require 15W-50 especially during the summer.

I'm not at all surprised by this engine's requirements. It's what us turbo guys have been doing all along. Doing otherwise results in rapid wear.

Remember, non boosted engines have vastly different bearing load issues. Also, consider what's required for track days. Many high powered and turbo track cars simply don't hold up with thin oils, unless designed to do so.
 
If you're getting that kind of RWHP, would it be fair to say that the engine would dino at 200 bhp/liter?
Quite a bit for any street car.
I understand that forced induction will result in higher bearing loads and that more power output requires that more fuel be burned which in turn generates more heat.
What kind of oil temperatures are you seeing?
What's been done to the engine to help it to hold up under power levels way beyond what Honda envisioned?
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet

Remember, non boosted engines have vastly different bearing load issues.


Indeed. Far beyond anything they were tested or designed for. And when a simple upgrade in oil can hold them together easily IF the tune is good, why not?
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Okay, so the Bugatti-badged VW is apparently exempt from the need to provide for adequate oil cooling?
Got it.
Of course, this engine will rarely if ever actually produce anything close to a thousand horses even in the hands of its most psychotic (or inebriated) owners, but I guess that doesn't matter.
I guess that nobody else remembers that really thick grades are often recommended as band aids.
This VW design is no different, despite its undeniably exotic design and unparalled performance in a street car.
Heck, it'll outrun most purpose-built race cars.
I can't think of a modern purpose-built race engine that needs a sixty grade oil, though, and they actually do get run hard all of the time.


Race engines are rebuilt every few hundred miles and longevity is not a factor.

Performance is.

I assume everybody would be saying this was a great idea if the Veyron was designed and built in the US.

This thin oil or you're obviously rubbish mantra is getting a bit old.

I await the first Veyron owner on Bitog to post up a UOA on 0w20 after 5k miles.

Wonder what the wear will be like, if the engine hasn't grenaded that is.
 
I hope that my sarcasm is making a bit more sense now. haha

And BTW, my Kawasaki ZX-14R puts down 197 horsepower to the back tire with a mere 1.441 liters of normally aspirated displacement giving it an output of 136.7 horsepower/liter. That Volkswagen on steroids makes 125 horsepower/liter with a ton of blowers and pushers and coolers and whatever else they could find in the Beetle parts bin. Eight liters of displacement and ONLY 1001 HP? tsk tsk tsk.. inefficiency at it's finest.

10W-60 INDEED!
wink.gif
 
The Veyron is neither a great nor a bad idea.
It's merely a couple of million dollars worth of wretched excess that will never be stressed by most of its owners.
Heck, it'll probably rarely be driven by most of its owners.
Still, it offers awesome acceleration and top end, well beyond any other factory standard street car ever built and it even meets American impact and emmissions standars.
Quite an achievement.
Now, in the lightly stressed use this car will see in the hands of a typical owner, a much thinner oil would work just fine.
We also do have a member here who does use twenty grade oils in his various Italian exotics based upon that premise.
If the engine is never run hard enough or long enough to generate any significant heat then it doesn't need an oil grade thick enough to retain adequate viscosity under the most extreme operating conditions.
 
The whole point of the Veyron is to make its speed accessible any day, any time, any place. If you want to go from cruising around to crushing your opponents, you're not supposed to have to stop and think about anything, let alone how thick your oil is.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The Veyron is neither a great nor a bad idea.
It's merely a couple of million dollars worth of wretched excess that will never be stressed by most of its owners.
Heck, it'll probably rarely be driven by most of its owners.
Still, it offers awesome acceleration and top end, well beyond any other factory standard street car ever built and it even meets American impact and emmissions standars.
Quite an achievement.
Now, in the lightly stressed use this car will see in the hands of a typical owner, a much thinner oil would work just fine.
We also do have a member here who does use twenty grade oils in his various Italian exotics based upon that premise.
If the engine is never run hard enough or long enough to generate any significant heat then it doesn't need an oil grade thick enough to retain adequate viscosity under the most extreme operating conditions.


Silly question, but how are we classifying "factory standard street cars"? Just wondering if we include cars like the Shelby 1000?
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
The whole point of the Veyron is to make its speed accessible any day, any time, any place. If you want to go from cruising around to crushing your opponents, you're not supposed to have to stop and think about anything, let alone how thick your oil is.


Yeah, there are so many opportunities to exceed 200 mph for an extended period of time.
If all you wanted to do was to win a little high speed roll-on you'd only be dipping into a fraction of this car's capability in crushing any opponent I can thing of.
 
Okay, how about a car that can be bought new from a dealer with normal factory warranty that is DOT/EPA certified and can be licensed and street driven in all fifty states?
The Veyron clearly would meet all of the above.
Not entirely sure about the Shelby 1000.
I don't think it matters, though, since there are more potent versions of the Veyron than the stripper 1001 bhp model.
The engine also probably has a lot more room for development than would a supercharged Ford truck motor.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Okay, how about a car that can be bought new from a dealer with normal factory warranty that is DOT/EPA certified and can be licensed and street driven in all fifty states?
The Veyron clearly would meet all of the above.
Not entirely sure about the Shelby 1000.


Not sure on the warranty part of it but as long as you don't buy the 1,200HP version, it is DOT/EPA approved. The 1200HP version is for "off-road use only". IIRC, any Ford dealer that does Shelby can hook you up with one of those.

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I don't think it matters, though, since there are more potent versions of the Veyron than the stripper 1001 bhp model.
The engine also probably has a lot more room for development than would a supercharged Ford truck motor.


Probably not actually. A variant of the Ford GT holds the world record in the standing mile (283Mph) and there are numerous ones making over 2,000HP out of that "Ford truck motor".

Unicorns usually have a lot less headroom than engines that are based off of something production with massive aftermarket support. The LSx family, the Ford Modular series.....etc.
 
No expense was spared building the Veyron. They actually lose 6 million dollars for everyone they sell. The car was built to showcase their ability and they don't use 10w-60 as some sort of band aid. With the millions they spent to design the engine I am sure they spec 10w-60 for a reason.
 
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Not sure on the warranty part of it but as long as you don't buy the 1,200HP version, it is DOT/EPA approved. The 1200HP version is for "off-road use only". IIRC,


If you're talking about the Veyron Grand Sport Vitesse or the Super Sport (both with 1200 bhp), you are absolutely wrong. They are both 50-state street legal.

The warranty on all new Bugattis is 36 months, bumper to bumper, unlimited mileage and includes full service during the warranty period (not counting tires--currently $30,000 for a set).
 
Originally Posted By: Rendezvous
No expense was spared building the Veyron. They actually lose 6 million dollars for everyone they sell.


Uh, it's actually about $750,000 on each car.
 
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