Oil analysis not accepted

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I was talking to a friend who is a service advisor now for Toyota and worked for Ford for many years as well. He was telling me that if you have a motor failure during your warranty time both Ford and Toyota do not accept oil analysis so they will not have your oil tested nor do they care if you had it tested yourself. He said they do care if you had your oil changes though and may or may not request to see your oil change slips or proof of oil change and at what millage. I wonder if the other auto manufactures work the same way? I found this interesting and just thought I would share.

I would think they would want to check it to see if you were running the proper oil weight at leased?
 
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I would think they would want to check it to see if you were running the proper oil weight at leased?

Wouldn't the oil change/purchase receipt already state the oil grade used/purchased?

Also, oils tend to shear out of grade after a few thousand miles of being in service. Doing a UOA at that point won't necessarily tell you what grade you started out with. It'll only tell you what grade/viscosity it is now, at the time of analysis.

Quote:
He said they do care if you had your oil changes though and may or may not request to see your oil change slips or proof of oil change and at what millage.

This is the basic premise of EVERY car manufacturer warranty. You must follow the maintenance schedule in order to keep warranty intact. Nothing new there, really.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I would think they would want to check it to see if you were running the proper oil weight at leased?

Wouldn't the oil change/purchase receipt already state the oil grade used/purchased?


Yes I guess that it would good point.
 
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I would think they would want to check it to see if you were running the proper oil weight at leased?

Wouldn't the oil change/purchase receipt already state the oil grade used/purchased?


Yes I guess that it would good point.


Depends if you have a stash you pick and choose from. Plus, I could assemble a collection of receipts that say someone bought some oil somewhere sometime. So if you do it yourself you won't have a dealer's receipt with date, mileage, grade, etc.

I keep a notebook with my maintenance activities, date, and mileage. Lawyers call it a contemporaneous record and say it's admissible as proof.
 
You have to really abuse an engine for a dealer to decline a repair based on oil changes, or lack thereof. Having worked for new car dealers for over 20+ years, I only saw failures when people NEVER changed their oil and basically ran the sump out of oil. Dealers get paid for warranty work and love all the work they can get. It's up to the manufacturer to deny the claim.
 
I keep track of everything in a notebook. By everything, I mean gas fills, tire rotations, etc.

I would hope that's enough. I don't expect to have any problems, but am doing maintenance per the book until powertrane warranty is up.
 
Yes, any such receipts/proof of purchase can be easily fabricated/manipulated.

For example, you could have a receipt of going for an oil change, but in fact it was one of your other cars that went in for that oil change. Some places don't list year/make/model of the car on the receipt.

Similarly, you can have a receipt of oil/filter purchase, but you may have purchased it for another vehicle in your fleet.
 
Originally Posted By: Jiblet
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I would think they would want to check it to see if you were running the proper oil weight at leased?

Wouldn't the oil change/purchase receipt already state the oil grade used/purchased?


Yes I guess that it would good point.


Depends if you have a stash you pick and choose from. Plus, I could assemble a collection of receipts that say someone bought some oil somewhere sometime. So if you do it yourself you won't have a dealer's receipt with date, mileage, grade, etc.

I keep a notebook with my maintenance activities, date, and mileage. Lawyers call it a contemporaneous record and say it's admissible as proof.


Also depends on where you bought the oil. A receipt from store A might say "Mobil 1 5W30" and maybe even list the UPC. A receipt from store B might just say "Oil".
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Why on earth would they use, or want to see as proof, something that is proven to be inaccurate when one or even few samples are used?


Because if it turns into a lawsuit, involving lawyers who have very little knowledge in an area, it can provide perception or better that the vehicle was well maintained, that its owner kept track of it in a manner better than the typical user, and helps provide basis. It in fact worked for me when I had to sue progressive insurance. I handed their lawyers a new one when it came to both the legaleze as well as making a case. Stuff like this DID matter.

Sure, hopefully most things dont come to that, but even if not, let's say an engine throws a bearing, but one had UOA that indicated coolant in the oil, if this was reported while under warranty, whether the manufacturer accepts it or not, there still is a basis for tools being applied to ensure things were OK or not.

This likely is all much ado about nothing, since howmany engines grenade during warranty and turn into an argument over oil or whatever else? Ill bet not many.

Common sense also says that for simplicity, one should still follow vendor guidelines during warranty periods to minimize hassle...
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
...
Also, oils tend to shear out of grade after a few thousand miles of being in service. Doing a UOA at that point won't necessarily tell you what grade you started out with. It'll only tell you what grade/viscosity it is now, at the time of analysis.
...

Sorry for being a little off topic but if oil shearing is so common, is it really that important if is still in limits when changing the oil?
 
Originally Posted By: MikeySoft
Sorry for being a little off topic but if oil shearing is so common, is it really that important if is still in limits when changing the oil?

Some oil shearing is normal/acceptable and all engine manufacturers factor it into the oil recommendation equation.

My response was to the OP letting him know that a UOA won't necessarily answer the question of what oil grade was put in there to begin with.
 
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I was talking to a friend who is a service advisor now for Toyota and worked for Ford for many years as well. He was telling me that if you have a motor failure during your warranty time both Ford and Toyota do not accept oil analysis so they will not have your oil tested nor do they care if you had it tested yourself. He said they do care if you had your oil changes though and may or may not request to see your oil change slips or proof of oil change and at what millage. I wonder if the other auto manufactures work the same way? I found this interesting and just thought I would share.

I would think they would want to check it to see if you were running the proper oil weight at leased?


It still could be used by the owner in court if it came to that. You can always take the sample in a sterile container and decide to get it analyzed at a latter point in time. A pharmacy will give you a sterile bottle if you ask.
 
This is just one more reason UOAs are a waste of money, with the rare exception of checking for a suspected coolant leak or other oil contamination.
 
^^^X a dozen. UOA's are tremendously over-valued here as some kind of holy grail when in reality they are just another data point at best...
 
Originally Posted By: Donald


It still could be used by the owner in court if it came to that. You can always take the sample in a sterile container and decide to get it analyzed at a latter point in time. A pharmacy will give you a sterile bottle if you ask.


If the oil in question is not G-oil, no need for sterile container.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
This is just one more reason UOAs are a waste of money, with the rare exception of checking for a suspected coolant leak or other oil contamination.

In general it's a waste of money. But if someone is driving 30-50k mostly highway miles a year, he/she may likes to do an UOA at 10-15k miles with synthetic oil to see if it can be extended to 15-25k miles, so that the OCI can be reduced to twice a year.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Donald


It still could be used by the owner in court if it came to that. You can always take the sample in a sterile container and decide to get it analyzed at a latter point in time. A pharmacy will give you a sterile bottle if you ask.


If the oil in question is not G-oil, no need for sterile container.


I realize that but you need a container with no residue (from washing it) and its easy to get a free sterile from a pharmacy.
 
Not really surprising a dealership won't accept an UOA, after all they don't know for sure what oil was tested. I found UOA to be worth the money when I changed from the recommended viscosity, thinking thicker was better. My wear metals were noticeably higher, now back to OEM spec 5w20, and all is well.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I was talking to a friend who is a service advisor now for Toyota and worked for Ford for many years as well. He was telling me that if you have a motor failure during your warranty time both Ford and Toyota do not accept oil analysis so they will not have your oil tested nor do they care if you had it tested yourself. He said they do care if you had your oil changes though and may or may not request to see your oil change slips or proof of oil change and at what millage. I wonder if the other auto manufactures work the same way? I found this interesting and just thought I would share.

I would think they would want to check it to see if you were running the proper oil weight at leased?


It still could be used by the owner in court if it came to that. You can always take the sample in a sterile container and decide to get it analyzed at a latter point in time. A pharmacy will give you a sterile bottle if you ask.



After having done a number of forensic cases, here's some tips. (Disclosure - I am a non-attorney dude!)

1. Document, document, document every step with receipts and notes. Trying to do this after the fact only reduces your credibility. Even one valid scrap of paper can help your claim.

2. Do not take at face value any claims or statements made by the dealer. The only statements that hold up in court are the written guarantees and statements by the manufacturer and facts that can be documented.

3. If you think you have a valid claim, go to an attorney first with your VOAs. UOAs, and any other documentation that you have. If the attorney thinks your claim is valid or supportable, he will then make a claim against the dealer and or manufacturer.

4. If the lawyer thinks an expert witness can help your case, then someone like mwa is called in to either testify or give an assessment via an affidavit.
 
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