Blinking 3rd Brake Light - Great Product #2

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Sep 19, 2004
Messages
598
Location
Tennessee
The first product I bought, that I recommended was turn signal daytime running lights from Webelectric. This is the second one that I recommend - which is a high compliment, since I am very picky.

For any of you have been rear ended by another vehicle before, you may also have interest in this product.

I recently bought a blinking (or pulsing) 3rd brake light for a 2004 Focus Sedan. Bought it from the Kahtec.com web site. Upon braking, it pulses something like 6X's/seconds for the first second, and then turns into a solid brake light. Various other versions from Kahtec repeat pulsing at a timed interval - if your foot stays on the brake.

This is the second one I have purchased. I realize, that if a driver following you who is not paying attention, you are still going to get rear ended. However, I believe this product does a great job of getting the attention of that daydreaming or cellphone talking, driver behind you - without being a nuisance. I also have one on my 2010 Fusion. I found that it has the side benefit of keeping highway tailgaters off your rear bumpers, with one tap of the brakes.
 
Interesting.

How do the cops feel about it?

Wonder if its legal in all states?
 
These devices are illegal in all states and should not be used. Federal law requires that brake lamps on passenger vehicles to be steady-burning. You will note that a total of ZERO (0) vehicle manufacturers install pulsing brake lamps. There is a reason for that.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
These devices are illegal in all states and should not be used. Federal law requires that brake lamps on passenger vehicles to be steady-burning. You will note that a total of ZERO (0) vehicle manufacturers install pulsing brake lamps. There is a reason for that.

What is the reason?
 
I'm not sure of a valid reason, but a guess would be that it resembles an emergency vehicle light.

I was going to put blue LED license plate screws on the front plate of my car and was told by a friend who was a police explorer that'd be a ticket if they were turned on and a cop saw it. They could be construed as an emergency vehicle.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
These devices are illegal in all states and should not be used. Federal law requires that brake lamps on passenger vehicles to be steady-burning. You will note that a total of ZERO (0) vehicle manufacturers install pulsing brake lamps. There is a reason for that.


They're legal in Maine (source- page 5) but I don't know how that trumps the NHTSA.

I figure the original CHMSL from 1986 should be enough to prevent rear-ending crashes.

32.gif
When cars started having DRLs motorcycles got (aftermarket) flashing highbeams. When will it end?
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
These devices are illegal in all states and should not be used. Federal law requires that brake lamps on passenger vehicles to be steady-burning. You will note that a total of ZERO (0) vehicle manufacturers install pulsing brake lamps. There is a reason for that.


Thankfully, these are legal on motorcycles.

The accepted standard seems to be that the brake light must go to a solid red after 4-5 seconds.

There isn't a Federal rule for this, but some states do address it. As an example, here is Tennessee's regulation:

"Continuous flashing brake light systems for motorcycles are permissible where the brake
lamp pulses rapidly for no more than five (5) seconds when the brake is applied and then
converts to a continuous light as a normal brake lamp until such time as the brake is released"
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
These devices are illegal in all states and should not be used. Federal law requires that brake lamps on passenger vehicles to be steady-burning. You will note that a total of ZERO (0) vehicle manufacturers install pulsing brake lamps. There is a reason for that.



That was my initial thoughts too.. I can only assume I'd get pulled over eventually for such a thing here.
 
I remember Citreon came out with this like 10-12 years ago, but only in Europe. The USDOT never approved this for use in the US and they are illegal. Awesome idea though. I think the Citreon system flashed the 4-way flasher if braking force exceeded a certain limit.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
These devices are illegal in all states and should not be used. Federal law requires that brake lamps on passenger vehicles to be steady-burning. You will note that a total of ZERO (0) vehicle manufacturers install pulsing brake lamps. There is a reason for that.


I don't think so. There are at least two new car dealers in my area that install them on ALL cars on their lots. Many new Chrysler and Kia products I see on the roads have this. I find it very annoying though - I wouldn't want it.
 
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04

Thankfully, these are legal on motorcycles.


They are not, not when operated in the United States. Tennessee has decided that it will allow certain exceptions; Tennessee cannot and does not over-rule the CFR.

The applicable regulation is: 49 CFR 571.108. For convenience, it is linked here.

Quote:

S3 Application. This standard applies to:

S3.1 Passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses, trailers (except pole trailers and trailer converter dollies), and motorcycles;


Quote:

Stop lamps are lamps giving a steady light to the rear of a vehicle to indicate a vehicle is stopping or diminishing speed by braking.


That's really it. Legal stop lamps are steady burning. Period.

I also direct your attention to Table I-A, I-B, and I-C further down in the document. You'll see that the requirements for Stop Lamps for all vehicle types specify Steady Burning. You'll see Steady Burning written over and over again. "Steady burning". "Steady burning". "Steady burning". Legal stop lamps are Steady Burning. It really doesn't matter what an aftermarket product manufacturer, a new car dealer who installs them, or the State of Tennessee has to say about it. Legal stop lamps to not flash or pulsate.

Reasons are very valid. Turn signals are permitted to be red in North America. Turn signals flash. If you see a red flashing lamp, it means "turn signal". If you see a (bright) steady red lamp, it means "stop". When folks install aftermarket devices like these, they introduce ambiguity to their vehicle.

Now, whether or not you actually get cited for a flashing stop lamp is something entirely different. Legality and enforcement are often not directly connected.

Edit: now, what IS allowed on a motorcycle are pulsating headlamps. Again, it's very straight-forward in the regulation. From the third row of Table I-C:

Quote:
The upper beam or the lower beam, but not both, may be wired to modulate from a higher intensity to a lower intensity in accordance with S10.17.5
 
Last edited:
I personally find those things confusing. A lot of thought went into lighting design by engineers and regulators. Yes, there are flaws- allowable US headlamps range from excellent to sucktacular, for example- but the placement and illumination of brake lights are not up for debate IMO.

Causing stop lamps to flash, changing the color of signal lamps and headlamps... they all should be high-$$$ moving violations IMO. But they are obviously NOT strongly enforced in the real world.
frown.gif


I will add that a very strict interpretation of the rules would outlaw sequential turn-signals like old T-birds, Imperials, and modern Mustangs use (and are a Mopar Performance option for modern Challengers- which I installed on my SRT). But since the first lamp to light DOES burn continuously thereafter, an equally strict interpretation makes them allowable. Kinda a thin line- but I find that they help differentiate a turn signal from a brake light when you can only see half the car... which would also be alleviated by amber rear turn signals but that's another debate.
wink.gif
 
Last edited:
While it would set your vehicle apart initially, a sea of pulsating red lamps in front of you would be very annoying, especially in stop and go traffic.

I would also imagine it would make determining distance from you to the stopping vehicle ahead more difficult to determine than a steady burn source.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Kinda a thin line- but I find that they help differentiate a turn signal from a brake light when you can only see half the car... which would also be alleviated by amber rear turn signals but that's another debate.
wink.gif



Not to take this thread in a different direction, but I have made it a personal choice of mine to avoid vehicles that either don't have amber turn signals or don't have available amber turn signal upgrades from the OEM that I can make myself (like from a different trim level). A great example is the previous generation Chrysler 300. The base model had a single red dual-function bulb where the 300C had separate stop and turn signal functions in the rear lamp.
 
The newer modules for the 3rd brake light don't flash the light on and off. The light comes on and stays on and only dims and brightens about four times then remains solid.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: brandini
I got this bad boy...


I wonder if the quality of it is better than their Engrish translation:

Quote:
We are product designer and manufacture, so you are getting product right from the source with 1 year warranty.


I hope that if these products fail, they at least leave you back with correctly-operating stop lamps, rather than no stop lamps at all.
 
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
I remember Citreon came out with this like 10-12 years ago, but only in Europe. The USDOT never approved this for use in the US and they are illegal. Awesome idea though. I think the Citreon system flashed the 4-way flasher if braking force exceeded a certain limit.


The 4 way flasher thing is nice-- I would appreciate seeing a car barrelling up in my rear view mirror slamming on its brakes.

In very tight traffic though where I can't see the outside turn signal, I might assume he's emergency braking AND ALSO about to dart into my lane.
 
I am currently having a discussion with the manufacturer of the modulator (Kisan), which I am using with an eight inch led light strip that is placed on my Goldwing on the lid of the top case. (It could be thought of as a third brake light). However, this is *not* a factory installed tail/brake light.

The brake lights still function as they did when my Goldwing left the factory.

My first email message with them was not successful. They played it dumb, and pointed me to the FMVSS statutes.

My response was a question that was succinct and to the point, that requires a yes or no answer. We'll see what they respond with.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top