Subaru seems to have switched to timing chains in the past few years and now claims them to be lifetime. Has anyone had experience with these engines and what year did they cut over?
recent Subaru engines with timing chains
- Thread starter Donald
- Start date
I believe the 78 Brat my mom had was a chain. If so then whats old is new again.
Since you said RECENT I am assuming that you are referring to the newer 2.5 L and 2.0 L FB engines. The 2.5 debuted in the 2011 Forester and became available in the 2013 Legacy. The 2.0 was added somewhere in between in the Impreza.
The wife has a '13 Legacy with the 2.5. So far it has been great with no problems in 28K miles.
The wife has a '13 Legacy with the 2.5. So far it has been great with no problems in 28K miles.
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Had the old-school T-belt EJ253 in my 2012 Legacy 2.5i CVT and have the 'new' chained FB20 in my new 2014 Crosstrek. They both start, sound and perform the same to me. They are not pretty sounding cold-start engines, belt or chain IMO.
I can only imagine how nightmarish a head gasket replacement would be on these new FB series boxers. That's a lot of timing chain to deal with and seal back up when you're done.
I can only imagine how nightmarish a head gasket replacement would be on these new FB series boxers. That's a lot of timing chain to deal with and seal back up when you're done.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Subaru seems to have switched to timing chains in the past few years and now claims them to be lifetime.
When are timing chains NOT considered to last the usable life of an engine?
Subaru seems to have switched to timing chains in the past few years and now claims them to be lifetime.
When are timing chains NOT considered to last the usable life of an engine?
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: Donald
Subaru seems to have switched to timing chains in the past few years and now claims them to be lifetime.
When are timing chains NOT considered to last the usable life of an engine?
That was my understanding as well. If anything, the chain tensioner might need replacement.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Subaru seems to have switched to timing chains in the past few years and now claims them to be lifetime.
When are timing chains NOT considered to last the usable life of an engine?
That was my understanding as well. If anything, the chain tensioner might need replacement.
To add some more joy to the equation, the FBs have shim/bucket valve lash adjustment as opposed to the jamb-nut manual adjusters on the EJ. Again- Intended to last the lifetime of the vehicle, but Lord help ya if you do need an adjustment. All the timing gear would have to come off and the cams removed to add/remove shims.
The bane of timing chains may be direct injection if what I read at gf-6 dot com is true. Apparently OEMs have admitted to chain wear problems due to the soot abrasive particles getting into the crankcase and doing a number on the chains. When GF6 hits, motor oil is going to change quite a bit I believe.
I believe Fords' new 1.0 liter 3 cylinder DI engine has a timing belt that is exposed to the crankcase oil like a chain. I wonder if this is in response to the phenomenon listed on gf-6.com. Seems like a belt could deal with the abrasive particles as well if not better. Or not. The idea of a timing belt running in the crankcase oil is difficult for me to wrap my brain around.
I believe Fords' new 1.0 liter 3 cylinder DI engine has a timing belt that is exposed to the crankcase oil like a chain. I wonder if this is in response to the phenomenon listed on gf-6.com. Seems like a belt could deal with the abrasive particles as well if not better. Or not. The idea of a timing belt running in the crankcase oil is difficult for me to wrap my brain around.
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: Donald
Subaru seems to have switched to timing chains in the past few years and now claims them to be lifetime.
When are timing chains NOT considered to last the usable life of an engine?
The ones before they went to timing belt. Not sure if they were considered lifetime or not, but apparently they were not lifetime in real use.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Subaru seems to have switched to timing chains in the past few years and now claims them to be lifetime.
When are timing chains NOT considered to last the usable life of an engine?
The ones before they went to timing belt. Not sure if they were considered lifetime or not, but apparently they were not lifetime in real use.
Gone are the days of the simple timing chain. My 289 Mustang had a simple timing chain, no tensioners or similar, the chain had a simple path from the crank to the cam. No one talked about timing chains as a problem area. Then they "improved" on things and have been fighting with timing belt and chain problems ever since.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Gone are the days of the simple timing chain. My 289 Mustang had a simple timing chain, no tensioners or similar, the chain had a simple path from the crank to the cam. No one talked about timing chains as a problem area. Then they "improved" on things and have been fighting with timing belt and chain problems ever since.
If making OHV engines was still practical, there would be no complex timing chains. Unfortunately, the need for lighter, smaller, and more powerful engines made SOHC and DOHC a must.
Some OHV engine chains did stretch, but at least they weren't too expensive to buy, and were not complex to replace.
Gone are the days of the simple timing chain. My 289 Mustang had a simple timing chain, no tensioners or similar, the chain had a simple path from the crank to the cam. No one talked about timing chains as a problem area. Then they "improved" on things and have been fighting with timing belt and chain problems ever since.
If making OHV engines was still practical, there would be no complex timing chains. Unfortunately, the need for lighter, smaller, and more powerful engines made SOHC and DOHC a must.
Some OHV engine chains did stretch, but at least they weren't too expensive to buy, and were not complex to replace.
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Chain tensioner or guides may need replacement after 100K +.
How expensive is that?
I've done 100k in 3 year's time. I only recently started splitting seat time between a couple of vehicles. But unless if those tensioners are designed for R&R like a timing belt then I'm not real impressed with having to touch them at 100k. 100k is too soon IMO; at that rate it might as well be timing belt...
Chain tensioner or guides may need replacement after 100K +.
How expensive is that?
I've done 100k in 3 year's time. I only recently started splitting seat time between a couple of vehicles. But unless if those tensioners are designed for R&R like a timing belt then I'm not real impressed with having to touch them at 100k. 100k is too soon IMO; at that rate it might as well be timing belt...
supton:
Your situation is significantly different than the average vehicle that experience thousands more cold starts and short trips than your driving style where the engine generally stays warm most of the time.
With proper maintenance, you can likely do 200K or longer without any issues.
.....And the tensioners / guides are not that difficult to replace. 100K is the worst case scenario on engines that are abused. There are a lot of variables here.
Your situation is significantly different than the average vehicle that experience thousands more cold starts and short trips than your driving style where the engine generally stays warm most of the time.
With proper maintenance, you can likely do 200K or longer without any issues.
.....And the tensioners / guides are not that difficult to replace. 100K is the worst case scenario on engines that are abused. There are a lot of variables here.
if ANYTHINHG fails in the timing chain or belt system on an interference fit engine as most are its big $$$$. changed everything twice in 200 thou on my 1.8T 2001 jetta + once on my 1.8T audi TT, about $500 in parts each time + my free labor, TT the same but tighter working. IMO no such thing as lifetime BUT only until warranty is gone + its your $$$$$
6-cylinder Subarus have used a timing chain since 2000, when the EZ came out.
The Forester got the FB starting in 2011, but only the non-turbo
The turbo Forester got the FA starting in 2014
The Impreza and Legacy got the new engine within a year or two.
Your 78 was actually gear driven, so no chain
The old EA pushrods were gear driven. The later SOHC EA82 had two timing belts!
The Forester got the FB starting in 2011, but only the non-turbo
The turbo Forester got the FA starting in 2014
The Impreza and Legacy got the new engine within a year or two.
Your 78 was actually gear driven, so no chain
The old EA pushrods were gear driven. The later SOHC EA82 had two timing belts!
I will take a belt over a chain any day on these engines, they are very easy to swap. The belt and closed deck are an ideal combination, oh wait the EJ22 had both those things and hydraulic lash adjusters and they let it go. They threw the baby out with the bath water.
Thank you for bumping this seven year old thread for this information. I'm sure OP needed information on your Jetta for his Subaru purchase.
