Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A

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Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Clevy
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks. So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.

Of course, that's technically true. But, look at their answer to question 8, notably the last sentence:

"Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic products use 100% PurePlus Base Oils."

There is no such thing as a "+" base stock, but a "plus" base stock exists?

Check out the answer to question four under GTL/Testing. They state that the PurePlus base stock is Group III and reiterate that there is no API classification of Group III+ base stocks. PurePlus is Pennzoil's marketing term for their GTL base stock. Fancy names and slogans are par for the course in motor oil marketing, just like M1's "Advanced full synthetic", Castrol's "SPT" (Syntec Power Technology), Amsoil's "The First in Synthetics", and Kendall's "Liquid Titanium". When you see the TM mark, you know you are dealing with a trademarked name for a product rather than a description of its governing body specifications.
 
Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
Check out the answer to question four under GTL/Testing. They state that the PurePlus base stock is Group III and reiterate that there is no API classification of Group III+ base stocks. PurePlus is Pennzoil's marketing term for their GTL base stock. Fancy names and slogans are par for the course in motor oil marketing....

That was the point. We all realize it's marketing, and they're doing the same thing. Sometimes, these Q&A's need a proof reader to ensure that answers don't peg the baloney meter.

I don't give a hoot about fancy slogans or proprietary names for base stocks. Get the product on the shelves, widely and reliably and at a good price.
 
Originally Posted By: laserred96gt
So they say shelf life is 4 years, I still have 25 quarts of PP that I got at oreilys clearance that are dated 2011, I better start using them up first. I thought shelf life would be longer than 4 years, maybe this STASH thing isn't too good of an idea.


And Mobil says 5 years even opened so long as capped and cool. Another + for Mobil.

And anyway, what happens? Does the liquid reverse itself into gas? LTG?
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Clevy
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks. So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.

Of course, that's technically true. But, look at their answer to question 8, notably the last sentence:

"Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic products use 100% PurePlus Base Oils."

There is no such thing as a "+" base stock, but a "plus" base stock exists?


Not only do they call it plus, they say it is better than base stocks hydro cracked from dino.

So they certainly seem to believe there are different classes of base oils within a group.
 
And that's certainly fair. But, they stumble into the same marketing speak. In comparison, look at Petro-Canada's site. They're quite proud (and justifiably so) about their Group III base stock. They'd certainly be entitled to call it a Group III+, but don't bother. They compare their method to "normal" Group III methods, and were touting theirs as clear (water white I believe is their term) ages ago.

Pennzoil, too, has every reason to be proud of their base stocks. But, they use marketing speak the same as anyone else.
 
Several people on this forum that are in the industry have always said that Group II/III+ was just marketing.

Now you guys are saying that Pennzoil is inferring that these oils are Group III+ because they call them PurePlus? That's funny. No oil company that sponsors BITOG is ever allowed to come up with marketing slogans again.
lol.gif


-Dennis
 
Overall I was disappointed with the answers.

Eg they were asked if Platinum and Ultra used GTL already. The answer was given for Platinum only and gave a date of "2013" which is a bit vague.

There was an answer that Noack of Platinum is below 10% when I think there are already official TDS that show higher.

The Ultra Euro 5w40 is being rebranded as Platinum while the 0w40 SRT will be Ultra Platinum. Yet they say Ultra Platinum is better than Platinum.

In their complete list they said all 3 Euro oils would be Platinum and have 5w30, 0w40 and 5w40. Then when asked about VW diesel, they listed 2 5w30 Ultra Platinum oils that would meet the spec. These oils weren't in their complete list.

I do like that they have settled into the idea that their oils are about keeping your engine clean, that the base oil helps with this and the Ultra keeps things 65% cleaner compared to Platinum 40% cleaner. So we have a major manufacturer saying that synthetic over the same interval keeps things cleaner and modern engines with turbos and DI can benefit.
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Overall I was disappointed with the answers.

Eg they were asked if Platinum and Ultra used GTL already. The answer was given for Platinum only and gave a date of "2013" which is a bit vague.

There was an answer that Noack of Platinum is below 10% when I think there are already official TDS that show higher.

The Ultra Euro 5w40 is being rebranded as Platinum while the 0w40 SRT will be Ultra Platinum. Yet they say Ultra Platinum is better than Platinum.

In their complete list they said all 3 Euro oils would be Platinum and have 5w30, 0w40 and 5w40. Then when asked about VW diesel, they listed 2 5w30 Ultra Platinum oils that would meet the spec. These oils weren't in their complete list.

I do like that they have settled into the idea that their oils are about keeping your engine clean, that the base oil helps with this and the Ultra keeps things 65% cleaner compared to Platinum 40% cleaner. So we have a major manufacturer saying that synthetic over the same interval keeps things cleaner and modern engines with turbos and DI can benefit.


I rarely agree with you however I do here.
The answers given were standard form answers to questions that repeated themselves and got a repeated answer.
On paper it looks as though pennzoil took a step backwards however once we start getting some data,from members with trending used oil analysis we'll see just how well tbn/tan hold up and see just how many miles the products will truly go
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just mix some 0w-20 with some 0w-40.
smile.gif



Yeah, that occurred to me.

But what is the problem with 0w30 that makes it so hard to produce an oil with significantly higher VI and lower KV40 than many 5w30's? Look at Mobil's 0w30; it has lower VI than both their 0w20 AFE and 0w40 EF, and its 40C viscosity is actually higher than M1 5w30. Redline's 0w30 also goes about the same way; its VI is lower than the 0w20 and 0w40 that are supposed to be its companions.
 
They also said in multiple instances that they will be migrating GTL base oils to their HDEO's. I'll be looking forward to that.

It's also interesting that the current RT6 has no GTL content.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Overall I was disappointed with the answers.

Eg they were asked if Platinum and Ultra used GTL already. The answer was given for Platinum only and gave a date of "2013" which is a bit vague.

There was an answer that Noack of Platinum is below 10% when I think there are already official TDS that show higher.

The Ultra Euro 5w40 is being rebranded as Platinum while the 0w40 SRT will be Ultra Platinum. Yet they say Ultra Platinum is better than Platinum.

In their complete list they said all 3 Euro oils would be Platinum and have 5w30, 0w40 and 5w40. Then when asked about VW diesel, they listed 2 5w30 Ultra Platinum oils that would meet the spec. These oils weren't in their complete list.

I do like that they have settled into the idea that their oils are about keeping your engine clean, that the base oil helps with this and the Ultra keeps things 65% cleaner compared to Platinum 40% cleaner. So we have a major manufacturer saying that synthetic over the same interval keeps things cleaner and modern engines with turbos and DI can benefit.


I rarely agree with you however I do here.
The answers given were standard form answers to questions that repeated themselves and got a repeated answer.
On paper it looks as though pennzoil took a step backwards however once we start getting some data,from members with trending used oil analysis we'll see just how well tbn/tan hold up and see just how many miles the products will truly go


I'm so honored!

The specs don't disappoint me as much as they do others. Sure, if VI had been higher and Noack lower, it would have made for a more enthusiastic purchase and more anticipation amongst oil nerds, but would you have noticed a real improvement or would it really have been a feel good factor?

I think you need to find the real testing results that are applicable for you in order to optimize oil choice. It seems that all oils that meet manufacturer specs will ensure engine longevity, so after that it's about extending oci and what your butt dino prefers.
 
I would add that the way the questions have been answered reflects a corporation who feels it is a good idea to engage in "social media" vs a corporation that needs to make it part if their strategy. Someone in marketing decided this was a good idea but the reality is that BITOG is not the focus of Pennzoil's marketing and answering our questions with the technical explanations that we deserve isn't something that they have time for.

However, contrast that with Mobil 1's website where they answer customer questions directly and in a very straightforward manner with a good level of technical knowledge. Being straightforward is more likely to win you business and clearly many car owners ask oil questions so there is an interest level that does not require a BITOG level of obsession.
 
Lastly, one of the reasons the Ultra GTL question interests me is that I like the 5w40 Euro in my Mercedes but don't know if it is GTL or not. If the new Platinum Euro 5w40 is the same as what I have, I would buy more (if they made it available and competitive in price to M1 0w40 and now Castrol 0w40).

Without the answers, I just don't know so picked up Castrol 0w40 on special and will see if that becomes my preferred Euro oil for the Mercedes.
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Lastly, one of the reasons the Ultra GTL question interests me is that I like the 5w40 Euro in my Mercedes but don't know if it is GTL or not.

Does it really matter to your Mercedes if it's GTL or not? It's certainly some very stable base oil if it has Noack of 6.8%, GTL or not.

BTW, I got it for $3/qt on a recent PepBoys sale. If you're patient, some kind of a sale will eventually come around.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Clevy
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks. So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.

Of course, that's technically true. But, look at their answer to question 8, notably the last sentence:

"Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic products use 100% PurePlus Base Oils."

There is no such thing as a "+" base stock, but a "plus" base stock exists?


Someone doesn't have their act together. I don't know how else to put it.
To quote Mobils own documentation from the Mobil link in this thread..
Originally Posted By: Mobil
We now have the very high quality Group III+ base stock,


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...g_to_GTL#UNREAD

http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=695007

If someone can get this wrong what else is wrong? Are the new PDS for PP and PU also wrong?
What i would like to know is who in hades is really answering these Q&A.
IMHO there is nothing worse than incompetence and it sure seems someone isn't up to snuff either at Pennzoil or Mobil.

Is Pennzoil claiming there is no such thing as Group III+ or someone answering the questions that is clueless?
The question remains is there such a thing as Group III+ or not?
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Clevy
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks. So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.

Of course, that's technically true. But, look at their answer to question 8, notably the last sentence:

"Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic products use 100% PurePlus Base Oils."

There is no such thing as a "+" base stock, but a "plus" base stock exists?


Someone doesn't have their act together. I don't know how else to put it.
To quote Mobils own documentation from the Mobil link in this thread..
Originally Posted By: Mobil
We now have the very high quality Group III+ base stock,


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...g_to_GTL#UNREAD

http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=695007

If someone can get this wrong what else is wrong? Are the new PDS for PP and PU also wrong?
What i would like to know is who in hades is really answering these Q&A.
IMHO there is nothing worse than incompetence and it sure seems someone isn't up to snuff either at Pennzoil or Mobil.

Is Pennzoil claiming there is no such thing as Group III+ or someone answering the questions that is clueless?
The question remains is there such a thing as Group III+ or not?



I'm sure I saw a post from Molekule stating that the + thingy was used but unofficial.
He'd know though , he is in the industry.
Here's my guess at it though. A stock is graded based on its characteristics. Since visom and gtl is relatively new on the scene perhaps they are referred to as + in and amongst industry professionals but the actual grading criteria hasn't been modified to be a + yet.
Just my guess. I think gtl is better than pao on so many levels yet pao is group 4 and gtl group 3.
Maybe the grading system hasn't caught up with technology.
 
Perhaps the Pennzoil folks would be kind enough to come back on the board and address some of these questions and concerns?
 
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