WHY leave trailer hitch on !

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Originally Posted By: stockrex
I had people with their hitch back into me on 2 occasions, major damage one, bumper damage the other time.


I have NEVER backed into anyone, with or without a hitch, BUT...

I HAVE had people who weren't paying attention rear-end me at stop-lights on 2 occasions. 0 damage the first time (a forgettable 80's car with metal front bumper), and 0 damage the 2nd time (an 80's fullsize Chevy van). Due to bumper height differential, and the fact that my hitch sits just below my rear bumper and sticks out ~1in, I received no damage.

Some of you may find this hard to believe, but I do find that people are more cautious and do not tailgate me nearly as much with hitch vs. without. If you doubt this, your response doesn't mean much unless you've tried it. I live in LA, the car capital, and tailgaters are all over the place on the freeway no matter your speed or lane (and I'm a fast driver and not a left lane hog). My hitch has also clearly protected my vehicle in 2 accidents. I think I've made a pretty clear and practical case for why I leave mine on.

If it makes some of you feel better to ignore the practical reasons I've described to instead characterize it as a childish intimidation tactic, or to compare it to hanging testicles off a truck, then hey...whatever floats your boat, right? Your rants have little to do with why I leave my hitch on my truck, but it's fun to watch you get your ... in a bind over something that won't change, so keep those rants coming!
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Originally Posted By: stockrex
I had people with their hitch back into me on 2 occasions, major damage one, bumper damage the other time.

what does the law say about it?

It varies from state to state. Here is Washington, it surprises, me there is no law about it.
However the law is clear on two things. If you back into someone you are at fault, if you don't have positive control of your vehicle and rear end someone you are at fault.

This the best you get from Washington state.
http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/docs/cvd/170_129.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: FXjohn

I use mine to tow. NOT to childishly try to intimidate people or cause damage to things or to pedestrians.


Again, Whizbanger may also use his to tow. Not sure why you are hesitant to consider this possibility. He also uses it to cause additional damage to people who rear-end him. Not sure why you make all those emotional assumptions about the latter.


because purposely wanting to cause damage is childish.
 
Originally Posted By: FXjohn

because purposely wanting to cause damage is childish.


FXjohn- and rear-ending someone is usually careless and stupid. I guess you guys are even then.
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Originally Posted By: moving2

a) People are more cautious when driving behind your vehicle when they see the hitch

Is this speculation on your part, or have there been studies to prove this? Speaking for myself, I've never once thought I should drive more cautious since the truck in front of me has the ball mount in place.
 
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: moving2

a) People are more cautious when driving behind your vehicle when they see the hitch

Is this speculation on your part, or have there been studies to prove this? Speaking for myself, I've never once thought I should drive more cautious since the truck in front of me has the ball mount in place.


whip- neither. It is not speculation, and I have not searched for studies.

It is anecdotal evidence presented as my observations and experience over 12 years driving both with and without a hitch on busy LA freeways where tailgating is quite common. Drivers tailgate me less often, and leave more space when following me and when coming to a stop behind my vehicle; the difference is pretty noticeable. You may not be one of those drivers who is more cautious around a hitch, but my observation is that a lot of other drivers are. And, while I can understand your need for a scientific study, because the difference was readily apparent in my experience, that's all I need to know to leave the hitch on; not to mention the protection it has offered my vehicle in 2 accidents- see above.

If you're truly interested in obtaining statistically significant data, please do let me know what you find.
 
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: moving2

a) People are more cautious when driving behind your vehicle when they see the hitch

Is this speculation on your part, or have there been studies to prove this? Speaking for myself, I've never once thought I should drive more cautious since the truck in front of me has the ball mount in place.


whip- neither. It is not speculation, and I have not searched for studies.

It is anecdotal evidence presented as my observations and experience over 12 years driving both with and without a hitch on busy LA freeways where tailgating is quite common. Drivers tailgate me less often, and leave more space when following me and when coming to a stop behind my vehicle; the difference is pretty noticeable. You may not be one of those drivers who is more cautious around a hitch, but my observation is that a lot of other drivers are. And, while I can understand your need for a scientific study, because the difference was readily apparent in my experience, that's all I need to know to leave the hitch on; not to mention the protection it has offered my vehicle in 2 accidents- see above.

If you're truly interested in obtaining statistically significant data, please do let me know what you find.

So based on your experience, you would tailgate me if I taped pillows to my bumper?
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
This is a timely thread. My coworker just reported an experience he had parking in a school parking lot that was compromised with mounds of snow. Coming out of the school he noticed one of his friends had a nice gash on the side of their car. It looked like it was opened with a can opener. They determined it must've been some schmuck with a trailer hitch who couldn't maneuver his truck properly. The car was legally parked.


How is this in any way the hitches fault? Hitch or not, I'm sure the driver of that truck would have still damaged your friends car.. especially if the damage was as bad as you described.
 
Originally Posted By: whip

So based on your experience, you would tailgate me if I taped pillows to my bumper?


No, because I don't tend to tailgate people.

I would think you're both weird and grasping at straws, though.
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Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: whip

So based on your experience, you would tailgate me if I taped pillows to my bumper?


No, because I don't tend to tailgate people.

I would think you're both weird and grasping at straws, though.
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You said a hitch makes people back off because of the increased danger. Conversely, it would make sense that a soft target would make people drive closer because of the reduced danger. Based on your anecdotal evidence, that seems perfectly logical. How is that grasping at straws?
 
Originally Posted By: whip
You said a hitch makes people back off because of the increased danger.


Correct so far, although I did not specify exactly why they are backing off, just that they are.


Originally Posted By: whip
Conversely, it would make sense that a soft target would make people drive closer because of the reduced danger.


Whoa. Make sense...to whom? Certainly not to me (see below). Moreover, my experience is with a trailer hitch, and not a pillow or anything else. Please do attach a pillow to your bumper and let us know what you find while I try to stop laughing.
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Originally Posted By: whip
Based on your anecdotal evidence, that seems perfectly logical. How is that grasping at straws?


Perfectly logical? It is about as far from perfect or logic as you can get. You are committing the most basic of logical fallacies here: denying the antecedent
...and that's exactly how it's both not logical AND grasping at straws. Please do let me know if you have any more questions, though.
 
I was reminded of this thread yesterday. At church we parked and walked up the sidewalk. Someone had parked their half-ton (maybe 3/4) in a nearby slot, backing into the slot. Wheels nearly to the curb, the bumper was at least a foot past the curb. Which meant their trailer hitch was halfway into the sidewalk. I thought of taking a pic but was running late. It was a large hitch, easily seen; but believe me, I've seen my kids (who were with me at the time) run into, well, everything. I could easily see my seven year old skip away from me (hey it's church, we're on a sidewalk) and right into that thing.

I understand that no one here backs up and onto the sidewalk like this, but I thought it was interesting nevertheless.
 
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: whip
You said a hitch makes people back off because of the increased danger.


Correct so far, although I did not specify exactly why they are backing off, just that they are.


Originally Posted By: whip
Conversely, it would make sense that a soft target would make people drive closer because of the reduced danger.


Whoa. Make sense...to whom? Certainly not to me (see below). Moreover, my experience is with a trailer hitch, and not a pillow or anything else. Please do attach a pillow to your bumper and let us know what you find while I try to stop laughing.
lol.gif



Originally Posted By: whip
Based on your anecdotal evidence, that seems perfectly logical. How is that grasping at straws?


Perfectly logical? It is about as far from perfect or logic as you can get. You are committing the most basic of logical fallacies here: denying the antecedent
...and that's exactly how it's both not logical AND grasping at straws. Please do let me know if you have any more questions, though.

you've been rear ended twice, and you say you don't tailgate. Once with the ball mount and once without. You say people tailgate less with the mount in place. I've never been rear ended, and I never leave the mount in place. You say my theories are full of holes, and yours are bulletproof. Carry on.
 
Originally Posted By: whip
you've been rear ended twice, and you say you don't tailgate.


Correct- rear-ended at stoplights twice. And correct, I do not tailgate. It seems like you're attempting to draw a relationship between being rear-ended at stoplights and tailgating, but I'm just not seeing it. Please explain.


Originally Posted By: whip
Once with the ball mount and once without.


Incorrect. Both times were with hitch and ball mount.


Originally Posted By: whip
You say people tailgate less with the mount in place.


Correct.


Originally Posted By: whip
I've never been rear ended, and I never leave the mount in place.


Good for you. You've been luckier than I have when it comes to careless drivers at stoplights, apparently. But I'm really not sure what your point is. You seem to be trying to relate leaving my hitch in place to the probability of being rear-ended at stoplights. I don't see how leaving my hitch in place would increase or decrease my probability of being rear-ended, I believe it would only affect the damage a rear-ender might cause. I only mentioned the rear-enders to illustrate the fact that my hitch saved my vehicle from damage in those cases. Please explain the point you are trying to make here.


Originally Posted By: whip
You say my theories are full of holes, and yours are bulletproof. Carry on.


The difference is that I've responded to each of your points and I've pointed out specific faults in your arguments, while you haven't succeeded in doing the same. You also like to dodge my questions. You have yet to explain, for example, how your pillow example is logical as you claim, when it commits the most basic of logical fallacies. I'm all ears.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted By: whip
Once with the ball mount and once without.


Incorrect. Both times were with hitch and ball mount.


Quote:
Originally Posted By: whip
You say people tailgate less with the mount in place.


Correct.

You don't see the contradiction in these two statements?

Quote:
I don't see how leaving my hitch in place would increase or decrease my probability of being rear-ended, I believe it would only affect the damage a rear-ender might cause.

You just said that exact thing in the quoted post above. If people tailgate less, your chances of being rear ended go down. Am I the only one that sees that?

Quote:
You have yet to explain, for example, how your pillow example is logical as you claim, when it commits the most basic of logical fallacies

I never made any claims about attachments on the rear of my vehicle affecting how those following me drive. That was your statement, and you've already contradicted it. I was simply asking questions.
 
Originally Posted By: whip
Quote:

Originally Posted By: whip
Once with the ball mount and once without.


Incorrect. Both times were with hitch and ball mount.


Quote:
Originally Posted By: whip
You say people tailgate less with the mount in place.


Correct.

You don't see the contradiction in these two statements?


No, I don't. The 2 stoplight accidents had nothing to do with tailgating. In both cases, the offenders were initially quite far from my truck and they just approached the traffic light as if it were green and I wasn't in the way. Had there been a wall there instead of me, they would've hit that. To give you an idea, one of the drivers was so stoned that he kept accelerating even after hitting my hitch. I had to put the truck in park/ebrake it, then walk back to his van to get him to stop accelerating. The other time was a drunk driver who had obviously slowed reaction time. So these stoplight accidents have little to do with what I was referring to, which was drivers being more likely to leave a safe distance between themselves and me during freeway driving, and then react appropriately when freeway driving gradually slows to a stop. The drivers who are more cautious by leaving more distance when following me on the freeway are generally the ones who are paying attention, and will have more time to stop. And I notice more of these cautious drivers around me when I have my hitch on. This can also apply to street driving, when I have traffic following me. Hope this clears things up. If not, ask away.

Originally Posted By: whip

Originally Posted By: moving2
I don't see how leaving my hitch in place would increase or decrease my probability of being rear-ended, I believe it would only affect the damage a rear-ender might cause.


You just said that exact thing in the quoted post above. If people tailgate less, your chances of being rear ended go down. Am I the only one that sees that?


I'm not sure if you're purposely taking this out of context, but I was referring specifically to the rear-enders I've been involved in (at stoplights). I can rephrase it to clarify if you'd like:
"I don't see how leaving my hitch in place would increase or decrease my probability of being rear-ended in the situations I've described at stoplights, I believe it would only affect the damage a rear-ender might cause". If that wasn't clear, now it is.

I don't see the hitch reducing the probability of a rear-ender in the cases of drugged out and/or drunk drivers who approach a stoplight like it's not there. They would hit whatever stops them regardless. I do see it reducing the probability of rear-enders on the freeway, and potentially when driving on the streets, in more common situations as explained above. Maybe this is why I've had no rear-enders on the freeway. Nor any rear enders on the street when I actually have traffic following me. And I do see the hitch as reducing the likelihood of damage, as it did in the 2 rear-enders I was a victim of.


Originally Posted By: whip
I never made any claims about attachments on the rear of my vehicle affecting how those following me drive.


You did say this:
Originally Posted By: whip
So based on your experience, you would tailgate me if I taped pillows to my bumper? [...] You said a hitch makes people back off because of the increased danger. Conversely, it would make sense that a soft target would make people drive closer because of the reduced danger. Based on your anecdotal evidence, that seems perfectly logical. How is that grasping at straws?


...and then refuse to address the lack of "perfect logic" I've pointed out in your argument. Again, I'm all ears in hearing you actually address this.
 
Leaving your ball mount in, obviously attracts both high and drunk people to rear-end you!!! If I were you, I'd take out the mount and avoid the accidents altogether!
 
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Leaving your ball mount in, obviously attracts both high and drunk people to rear-end you!!! If I were you, I'd take out the mount and avoid the accidents altogether!


...and it apparently causes many more drivers to keep a safe distance from my vehicle when they otherwise might not, thereby AVOIDING countless accidents. It's easier for you to count accidents that have occurred than to consider accidents potentially prevented, it seems. Perhaps you didn't read about the more cautious drivers around me on the freeway. Or perhaps you're doing a little selective reading.
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It has also saved my vehicle from damage, regardless who is rear-ending me and why.
 
Your "observations" regarding people keeping a distance when you leave it in vs not - is merely subjective hearsay in this argument. You seem quite adamant that you're presenting "facts" - but the only true data points we have are the two rear-endings. Therefore, I find my conclusion that leaving a ball mount in place attracts impaired drivers to rear-end you is more likely as it fits the actual facts that you have presented.

Either way, you seem likely to argue for a few more pages.
 
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Your "observations" regarding people keeping a distance when you leave it in vs not - is merely subjective hearsay in this argument. You seem quite adamant that you're presenting "facts" - but the only true data points we have are the two rear-endings.


surfstar- your "argument" holds no water.

1. You cannot prove that my hitch either contributed to or avoided any accidents at all. Which is to say, you have nothing. To assume it caused the 2 rear-enders I was involved in is less than baseless, it's ridiculous.


2.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
...but the only true data points we have are the two rear-endings.


Yes, and in both those data points, the hitch protected my vehicle from damage. I wonder why you are ignoring this fact. Oh yeah, I know.
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3.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Therefore, I find my conclusion that leaving a ball mount in place attracts impaired drivers to rear-end you is more likely as it fits the actual facts that you have presented.


And you have yet to provide any supporting evidence or arguments as to how my hitch contributed to these accidents. As I said, these were drunk/stoned drivers who would've hit a wall if it were in their way (maybe you forget...one kept accelerating after rear-ending me).

I have presented the fact that I have never been involved in an accident when someone was following me with the hitch on, and the observation that drivers are more cautious driving around me when it is on. And what facts and observations, much less supporting arguments have you presented? Oh yeah. None.

Nothing but the ridiculous argument that a trailer hitch somehow magically attracts druggies and drunkards. Riiiiiight. Good "observations" and "logic" there, surfstar. If those are the "facts" you want to "fill pages" with, then thanks for the continued laughs at your expense.
 
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