2014 Volkswagen GTI 6 spd manual..your thoughts

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Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman
When your water pump can fail every 7-15k miles, i would not consider reliability "average"
This is not a small sample size who had water pump issues either.


I would highly recommend that you purchase a base model Corolla.

This is a *microscopic* sample size, how many tens of thousands of sixth generation GTIs have been sold since it was sent to market in 2009? How many hundreds of thousands of TSI powered Volkswagens have been sold since 2009? You've pointed out a thread that has 106 posts in it. In that thread there is a total of 45 reported water pump failures on 38 unique cars. In the same thread you have 34 people reporting "no issues." You have two people in this thread that own(ed) the same model of car reporting "no issues." So that's nearly 50:50 for cars with issues for cars without issues out of a total of 74 reported vehicles...... out of tens of thousands of cars sold.
Buy a Corolla. Seriously.


That is just ONE of many threads regarding water pump failures. Also, not all owners who have failed water pumps will voice their experiences, so i highly bet you that is not a microscopic sample. I read in some of the comments that users are repeatedly told by VW that it is a common problem and they get frequent warranty repairs for water pump failures.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
OK, we get it. So what are you buying then?
smile.gif



Exploring 2009+ Lexus IS250. A low mileage one can be had for the price of a new GTI.
Yes, some of then have carbon build up issues requiring an engine rebuild but you can avoid that by not buying one that falls into a vin # range

Originally Posted By: gofast182
Garlicbread, after this discussion you'd be incredibly silly not to be seeking out a CPO Acura TSX SE with manual transmission.


We already have a TSX in the family.

Originally Posted By: Mykl
^ and I don't say "buy a Corolla" to be mean or anything, but you do seem to place an extreme amount of weight on reliability. If you absolutely can not stand the thought of something possibly failing on a car, a Corolla may very well be your best bet. If you want something sportier, go back and check out the Civic Si again (great car).


Why wouldn't you place a lot of weight on reliability??? Thats why we have all these companies out there doing reliability test so you can make WISE purchases. You're paying thousands of dollars on a car and you want it work correctly right? It's not like im spending a buck on a snicker bar.
 
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Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman
That is just ONE of many threads regarding water pump failures. Also, not all owners who have failed water pumps will voice their experiences, so i highly bet you that is not a microscopic sample. I read in some of the comments that users are repeatedly told by VW that it is a common problem and they get frequent warranty repairs for water pump failures.


Given that you don't seem to be willing to go beyond "I read on a forum..." when it comes to researching a vehicle it seems unlikely that you could win that bet.

Hearsay is not evidence.

Properly compiled reported failures is evidence. There are sites that exist to provide this information. You're not quoting those sites. You're making a bet with tens of thousands of dollars based on hearsay.

Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman

Why wouldn't you place a lot of weight on reliability??? Thats why we have all these companies out there doing reliability test so you can make WISE purchases. You're paying thousands of dollars on a car and you want it work correctly right? It's not like im spending a buck on a snicker bar.



Except you're not consulting with those companies. You're quoting random forum posts.

You're going to buy a $20k+ Snickers bar based on the warm fuzzy feeling of not finding too many negative forum posts about a specific platform. THAT is unwise.

I understand and accept the general wisdom that a Volkswagen is more likely to give you trouble than a Honda or Toyota, but I've been on the internet long enough to know that enthusiast forums are only useful for identifying what issues tend to occur more frequently than others with any given car. You can't use that method for determining exactly how frequently something happens or what the chances are it will happen to you.
 
Originally Posted By: Mykl
...but I've been on the internet long enough to know that enthusiast forums are only useful for identifying what issues tend to occur more frequently than others with any given car. You can't use that method for determining exactly how frequently something happens or what the chances are it will happen to you.


Spot on. The model specific forums are great for finding fixes for common problems, but are a terrible source of reliability data because people with no problems don't post about it or start new threads.

When I was car shopping at the end of 2012 and spotted the Focus in my signature, as a possible contender, I really did not bother sifting through various Focus forums. I just did a preliminary search and learned that 03 and newer models had very few recalls and TSB's when compared to prior years and I was only looking for big ticket items, as small stuff I can handle myself.
Then I started a thread here, knowing that because this forum has a broad range of car owners and their age, I will get the most realistic answers. And I did. Few minor problems were mentioned in that thread, of which only one occurred so far, a leaky thermostat housing, that's it.

Hence, I bought the car and it has been great so far. But if one was to read and believe all the horror stories about the yearly Focus models, they would think that these cars break down at every opportunity.
 
Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman
Yes, some of then have carbon build up issues requiring an engine rebuild but you can avoid that by not buying one that falls into a vin # range

Couldn't you apply the same tactic to avoid a GTI with a water pump issue? I know it was only certain production dates that had WP issues.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman
Yes, some of then have carbon build up issues requiring an engine rebuild but you can avoid that by not buying one that falls into a vin # range

Couldn't you apply the same tactic to avoid a GTI with a water pump issue? I know it was only certain production dates that had WP issues.


Not when you're biased from the get-go
lol.gif
 
I mean it is pretty unfair to malign a specific model based upon the model specific forums. It is OK to say I want to buy something which has higher reliability but you need to make that decision based upon real data too.

For myself, I faced similar issue with respect to purchasing a CPO BMW 535xi. Fair or not, after seeing two fuel pump on the vehicle before 15K miles, I backed out. I am still not sure if that was the best decision but I will live with it. In this particular case, I went with the devil I know (aka Honda V6 transmission) vs the devil I don't know (BMW HPFP)
 
THE BEST USE for owners' forums is not researching for frequency of problems, but to identify them and HOW PEOPLE RESPOND TO PROBLEMS...identifying maintenance/preventative measures and procedures and possible/alternative solutions...

As they say...when it comes to future predictions, YMMV....
 
I understand the feeling of not wanting a specific model because a certain issue tends to pop up more frequently in it than in other cars. I've decided to not purchase cars because they were prone to problems I simply didn't want to have to worry about or deal with.

But I wouldn't suggest that the vehicle was particularly unreliable just because it had a specific issue that I never wanted to have to deal with.
 
Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman
I drove the GTI the other day and loved it

10 days later:
Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman
While the GTI did feel good, it is not anywhere near as enjoyable as my integra. The shifter throw was long and kind of dull and the clutch catches high and had no springy-ness to it.

Obviously, you're big on manual trans. That's great. But if that trans and clutch feel lackluster, then how can you say "you loved it"? To me, one of the above two statements is incorrect. If the second statement is correct, then why even bother researching anything else about this car, looking at problem spots, etc? Seems it should have been dismissed from consideration right after you took the test drive.
 
I would say that the shifter is a solid passing effort by VW, although I certainly wouldn't rank it among the best I've used.

My favorite shifters are ones that convey the sensation that you're directly attached to a complicated mechanical device (you know, like a transmission). One where you can feel the cogs sliding into place, and especially the friction of syncros doing their job. This is where the GTI's shifter is weak, IMO it's pretty dull.

I'm told that shifter feel is greatly improved by installing stiffer engine mounts. VWR (Volkswagen Racing) has a line that is reportedly great for street use with little to no addition of NVH, and if you only upgrade the one that the dog-bone connects to people state the improvement is fairly dramatic. There's also a $50 OEM part you can install (I think it's from an Audi S3) that reduces the shift length by about 15%.
 
I found the Acura ILX (aka Civic Si) 6-speed shifter absolutely amazing but my experience has been with previous Honda and Nissan Maxima and older Eclipse/Talon 5-speeds.
 
So what if there's already a TSX in the family? From what I gather is is the EXACT car you seem to be describing when you list your wants and desires.

The ILX 6MT is nice but you will find both the interior and ride quality are steps down from TSX.
 
The TSX is not for the OP either because a quick google search reveals that these cars have premature battery failures, oil consumption, problems with the power steering, odd engine noises during cold starts, automatic transmission failures, etc.

Clearly Acura is no good
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Mykl
I would say that the shifter is a solid passing effort by VW, although I certainly wouldn't rank it among the best I've used.

My favorite shifters are ones that convey the sensation that you're directly attached to a complicated mechanical device (you know, like a transmission). One where you can feel the cogs sliding into place, and especially the friction of syncros doing their job. This is where the GTI's shifter is weak, IMO it's pretty dull.

I'm told that shifter feel is greatly improved by installing stiffer engine mounts. VWR (Volkswagen Racing) has a line that is reportedly great for street use with little to no addition of NVH, and if you only upgrade the one that the dog-bone connects to people state the improvement is fairly dramatic. There's also a $50 OEM part you can install (I think it's from an Audi S3) that reduces the shift length by about 15%.


The short shifter is about a 20min DIY on the GTI. It is easy and gives you a very metal-on-metal feel. If you want that mechanical feeling, it is easy on the GTI.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc


The short shifter is about a 20min DIY on the GTI. It is easy and gives you a very metal-on-metal feel. If you want that mechanical feeling, it is easy on the GTI.


I may give that a try. I've been thinking about grabbing one with a dog-bone mount insert. Less than $100 total and I'm told the difference is nice.
 
Originally Posted By: Mykl


Except you're not consulting with those companies. You're quoting random forum posts.

You're going to buy a $20k+ Snickers bar based on the warm fuzzy feeling of not finding too many negative forum posts about a specific platform. THAT is unwise.

I understand and accept the general wisdom that a Volkswagen is more likely to give you trouble than a Honda or Toyota, but I've been on the internet long enough to know that enthusiast forums are only useful for identifying what issues tend to occur more frequently than others with any given car. You can't use that method for determining exactly how frequently something happens or what the chances are it will happen to you.


http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Volkswagen/GTI/2013/Hatchback/index.htm
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Reliability.aspx?year=2013&make=Volkswagen&model=GTI
Who says im looking at the resources out there?


Originally Posted By: KrisZ
The TSX is not for the OP either because a quick google search reveals that these cars have premature battery failures, oil consumption, problems with the power steering, odd engine noises during cold starts, automatic transmission failures, etc.

Clearly Acura is no good
grin.gif



I drove the tsx from 06-11

Where did you gather this from?
Our battery lasted 5 years
Oil consumption existed on the early years 04-05. Mine doesnt burn a drop.
Re-call for powersteering potentially leaking. Fixed
These engines are quiet
Transmission are solid
Our 06 has 80k and only problem was the recall on the power steering hose.

Where are you pulling this info from? I frequented acurazine.com when i had this car to use.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman
I drove the GTI the other day and loved it

10 days later:
Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman
While the GTI did feel good, it is not anywhere near as enjoyable as my integra. The shifter throw was long and kind of dull and the clutch catches high and had no springy-ness to it.

Obviously, you're big on manual trans. That's great. But if that trans and clutch feel lackluster, then how can you say "you loved it"? To me, one of the above two statements is incorrect. If the second statement is correct, then why even bother researching anything else about this car, looking at problem spots, etc? Seems it should have been dismissed from consideration right after you took the test drive.



Haha you guys do like picking me apart.

You do know there are a lot of aspects to the car right??????
First of all, the engine was great! Very responsive and had instant torque.
Chassis felt solid with very little flex and quiet road noise.
Suspension absorbed bumps very well.
Only thing i didnt like BUT dont hate was the shifter and clutch. This is something that i can easily get use to. I just prefer my integra's shifter and clutch.

You guys are grilling me for wanting a reliable car. Good job bitog.
 
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Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman

I drove the tsx from 06-11

Where did you gather this from?
Our battery lasted 5 years
Oil consumption existed on the early years 04-05. Mine doesnt burn a drop.
Re-call for powersteering potentially leaking. Fixed
These engines are quiet
Transmission are solid
Our 06 has 80k and only problem was the recall on the power steering hose.

Where are you pulling this info from? I frequented acurazine.com when i had this car to use.



TSX Club.com

But what relevance does your experience with the TSX have to the stuff I dug out on the net?
You certainly were quick to dismiss positive ownership experiences from happy VW owners in this thread and condemn the GTI as not reliable based on few problems found on the net, but look how quickly you went to defend the TSX
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman

http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Volkswagen/GTI/2013/Hatchback/index.htm
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Reliability.aspx?year=2013&make=Volkswagen&model=GTI
Who says im looking at the resources out there?



It wasn't me, because you clearly weren't.

I'm happy to see that you've decided to broaden your research a bit. I believe that fuel injectors are covered under an extended warranty that goes to 10 years and 120,000 miles. The water pump MSN is purchasing must be dipped in gold, because even the OEM pump is only $200. You can buy an aftermarket water pump with metal impeller for $100.

Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman

You guys are grilling me for wanting a reliable car. Good job bitog.


Not true. It is absolutely and totally understandable that you want the most reliable car possible. There is nothing wrong with seeking that and I doubt anyone here would say otherwise. What is wrong is how you initially chose to deem a specific vehicle as unreliable, via hearsay with zero supporting evidence.
 
Have you considered a V-6 Accord with a manual gearbox? I've heard great things about those. You can certainly get into one for the same price as a well optioned GTI.
 
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Have you considered a V-6 Accord with a manual gearbox? I've heard great things about those.

Currently, only the coupe version offers a V6 with manual trans. He wants a 4-door.
 
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