Fram X2 oil filter

[gerhardb]

Well,

To close:

- The fitlering capabilities of the Fram filters has never been the issue. If you are looking for a filter that filters oil well, Fram is not a problem.

- The issues with all of the Fram filters, except for the x2, are their cheesy cardboard construction. Many people are concerned that at high pressure they will fall apart causing damage to your engine.

- In the case of the Fram x2 filter, it shares none of the parts of the "normal" Fram designs except for the by-pass valve, and the Anti-drain back valve (ADBV).

- No actual first hand proof has been offered as to failures of the by-pass valve. In fact, it would be rather difficult for the by-pass valve to fail in a fuild filled envinronment.

- The ADBV is a source of debate, however, the amount of oil the might be able to pass the drain back valve is probably quite minor given the can spring and the sealing at the bottom of the filter cartridge. Could it be a better design, sure... it's a really a problem... not in the x2 series. (Ridgid metal construction, as opposed to cardboard for one...)

- Used Oil Analysis (UOA) with AMSOIL 10w40 (AMO), Mobil 1 5w30, Mobil 1 10w30, Mobil 1 0w40, and Castrol GTX Highmilage yeild some of the best results Blackstone has even seen in a Honda H22a4 engine. So scientifically, with 7500 miles use intervals, the Fram x2 works better than other filters.

Would I use another filter rather than the X2 Fram?

Well, yes, I would.

I prefer the Mobil 1 filter for 5000 mile interval with synthetic oil.

I prefer the K&N filter for 7000 mile intervals with synthetic oil. (It filters almost as well, but don't impead oil flow as much as the Mobil 1.)

I like the A/C Delco filters made by Champion Labs, as they are basically the same are the Mobil 1 / K&N.

I also REALLY like the AMSOIL SDF-20 for the Honda H22A application as it filters just as well as the Mobil 1.

All of that being said, the Fram x2 filters the same as the K&N's I've run UOA tests on.

I do not use the Mobil 1 filter because I can not get them in New Jersey.

[ May 14, 2004, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: gerhardb ]

 

[Grease is the word]

quote:

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Originally posted by T-Keith:
Grease is the word, I eagerly await your study, hope you've got the M1 and Purolator in this time too.-T

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Oh, yeah!

Here are the new filters added:

AC UFP
AC 35L
Amsoil
Mobil 1
Donaldson Synteq
Donaldson (regular)
Fram X2
Purolator
Motorcraft
Wix Racing
Fleetguard

Hang on to your anti-drain back valves ladies and gentlemen, we are going to go into by-pass mode!

This one will be fun!

 

[Propflux01]

quote:

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Originally posted by gerhardb:

quote:

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Originally posted by Tim H.:
Seems to me if your filter is going into bypass mode you have more problems going on to be worried about a clicker vs spring type. Most all cars have a pump or block machined bypass valve anyhow, do they not?

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Untrue.

In the case of Honda H22 series motors that filter is intended to by-pass at higher RPMs. This is by design and what the engineers intended.

Most filters do not filter all of the oil passing through them 100% of the time...

Oh, and something else about the by-pass design on the Fram x2 filer (which appears to have a slightly stiffer spring than the rest of the Fram Designs... and I've taken them all apart!):

If the filter is filled with a liquid...which is nearly uncompressable... how is it that the by-pass valve is failing? How is the filter assembly being shocked enough to cause the by-pass valve to fail? Does ANYONE have 1st hand experience with this happening??

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OK, i was not aware of that type of engine, but if so, I would figure that filter selection (By brand) would be of utmost concern as 'most' filters are not design-specific, meaning that one filter will fit several models, and a 'generic' bypass pressure is used to satisfy all those vehicles needs. In an engine such as the Honda you were referring to, it would seem to me that the bypass method of a filter would be foremost on the mind for quality. In other words, if it is dependent on a filter for bypassing, I would be very concerned on the Quality of the bypass assy.

AS for your second paragraph, if I pull a filter out of an engine, and NO oil comes out, that tells me, in a poor mans way, that the anti-drainback/bypass valve is leaking, not sealing right, or failed totally. I have had this happen to more than one engine using a Fram filter (not the X-model one) I have also experienced first hand that 'uncompressable' fluid bursting a can due to a bypass valve not opening. If that is the proof you are seeking for failing bypass valves,I am sure others have had this experience with other filters, including Frams. I cannot comment on the X-model filter, as I have not used it, only to say based on Frams lower quality in their other, more basic filters, I am skeptical of it, and feel that for what the filter is made of, No proof has been given to me that it's quality justifies the price asked, that other filters of the same initial quality have been proven already for 1/2 the price. If the X-model filter is proven to be a good one, by the tests that are being posted about here, than great! All I wil have to worry about then is the price.

 

[sbc350gearhead]

The v-6 in the saturn vue, is made by honda. That is the only GM vehicle with a honda engine, that I know of.

 

[Ironduke4]

Hey grease is the word! What is you site address? I am very interested in seeing your site and your test results. Anyway thanks for all the info here and all the arguments for and against the fram X2 oil filter. I say if it is orange (extra guard) avoid it like the plague but the good thing is the X2 is not orange so that may be a good thing.

 

[Grease is the word]

ID4,

Here it is:

http://home.earthlink.net/~memphis3/mercfilters/merc.htm

 

[mikep]

No problem or hesitation using a Fram X-2 if it's true the construction is up to par with other quality filters on the market. My only reservation would be if it's priced into the stratosphere with the likes of Mobil1 and K$N filters.

If Fram has the nerve to charge 8 bucks for a properly built filter rather than the 3 bucks for cardboard, they would never get my biz.

 

[gerhardb]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tim H.:

quote:

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Originally posted by gerhardb:

Originally posted by Tim H.:
[qb] Seems to me if your filter is going into bypass mode you have more problems going on to be worried about a clicker vs spring type. Most all cars have a pump or block machined bypass valve anyhow, do they not?

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AS for your second paragraph, if I pull a filter out of an engine, and NO oil comes out, that tells me, in a poor mans way, that the anti-drainback/bypass valve is leaking, not sealing right, or failed totally. I have had this happen to more than one engine using a Fram filter (not the X-model one) I have also experienced first hand that 'uncompressable' fluid bursting a can due to a bypass valve not opening. If that is the proof you are seeking for failing bypass valves,I am sure others have had this experience with other filters, including Frams. I cannot comment on the X-model filter, as I have not used it, only to say based on Frams lower quality in their other, more basic filters, I am skeptical of it, and feel that for what the filter is made of, No proof has been given to me that it's quality justifies the price asked, that other filters of the same initial quality have been proven already for 1/2 the price. If the X-model filter is proven to be a good one, by the tests that are being posted about here, than great! All I wil have to worry about then is the price.

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Good points...

One exception by my way of logic:

The "poor mans" test doesn't work.

The anti-drainback valve is only going to stop SOME of the oil from draining back into the block.

Filter position is going to determine how MUCH oil will end up back in the pan.

In the filter that is inverted on the engine, then ALL of the oil will remain in the filter.

In the filter that is perpendicular to the block, maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of the oil will leak through the filter medium (with IS poreous) and down into the pan.

Angles between them will probably be somewhere in the middle.

The "poor man's" test is NOT a good indicator of a bad ADBV. ALL filter material in a normal oil filter is going to eventually pass the oil after the filter has been sitting.

 

[Brian Barnhart]

Seems to me the amount of oil draining out of an ADBV equipped filter depends on the direction and length of the oil passages in the engine after the filter’s outlet. If the passages go upward to a level above the highest point of the filter before reaching an “open point” (such as a main bearing), it seems none of the oil would drain from the filter (assuming the ADBV is working). Likewise, it seems that if the passage travels downward toward an “open point”, some or all (depending on the filter angle and relative levels) of the oil could then drain from the outlet hole.

 

[T-Keith]

Actually I think that the "poor mans" test is the best method for testing the ADBV. Think about it, your testing how it actually works on your engine. Now you can't compare different vehicles this way, but using the same vehicle and oil change procedures this seems like a great way to test different filters. Oil filter location and orientation as well as oil passages are irrelevant because they all stay the same.

-T

 

[Brian Barnhart]

I agree, though I believe the time after shut-off would need to be consistent to effectively compare ADBVs this way. Oil temp at shut-off might also be a factor.

I was simply questioning the idea that orientation is the sole factor affecting how much oil drains from an ADBV equipped oil filter following engine shut-off. I suspect oil passages after the filter outlet might also have an effect.

 

[T-Keith]

I agree there are alot of factors that effect the amount of oil in the filter. Orientation, oil passages, ect. Ford even puts two ADBVs in one of their filters.

My post was more in response to gerhardb. If you keep all the factors the same, the "test" is a good one.

-T

 

[FlyNavyP3]

Interesting to read the 13 year old sentiments in this thread. Especially now that the Fram XG series is the darling of the site.