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[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Is the move to an API SN 0W-40 a reaction by Castrol to that trend?

Explain to me, what is it about Castrol 0w-40 that makes it clean(er) than GC 0w-30? They both have similar levels of additives. The only difference is that API doesn't care how much additives you put in an Xw-40 grade. So an Xw-40 oil with the exact same add pack can be classified as SN, but an Xw-30 oil can't.

Quote:
But it seems to me that US retail distribution is already limited (Autozone)

Availability of GC has always been limited, since day one. It was initially only available at AutoZone. But nowadays you can also find it at PepBoys and at Advance Auto Parts.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
I hope GC is alive and well in the US market five years from now.

But it seems to me that US retail distribution is already limited (Autozone) and BP Castrol is heavily focused on its newest 0W-40 product that replaces GC in almost all applications.

By dirty I was referring to the stuff that EPA measures coming out of the tailpipe, not the cleanliness of the piston skirt.

As we all know, recent oil formulations in the US have been driven by federal emissions and fuel enonomy goals. Is the move to an API SN 0W-40 a reaction by Castrol to that trend?


Which are less stringent then Euro norms. If you are worried about emissions, you should now that ACEA A3,B3/B4 and C3 or C4 are much more stringent then any API norm.
API SN has to do more with fuel dilution in oil and degradation of oil caused by high content of sulphur in gas and ethanol (corn ethanol).
Still, MB 229.5, BMW LL-01 and especially MB229.51, BMW LL-04 or VW 504.00/507.00 are much more stringent then API SN. Euro norms, especially EURO5 or not to mention coming Euro 6, are way ahead of EPA norms. Only that comes close to Euro norms are CA norms, but even those are more flexible because of oil infrastructure, winter mixes etc.
On the note GC or not. In EU you do have available new version of 0W30, with Mid-SAPS formulation, for years now. It might happen that that formulation eventually comes to the U.S.
Also, GC cannot meet SN not because Castrol cannot make oil like that.
From practical experience, I prefer GC much more the M1, that meets SN, but does not work as good (IMO).

 

[bobbydavro]

API SM and SN have a 800ppm max Phos on ILSAC grades. 0W-30 is an ILSAC grade, 0W-40 is not.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Big brother doesn't like dirty SL and SM rated oils.

I don't think the government gives two hoots about SL or SM rated oils. There are plenty of non-spec oils on the shelf, for that matter.

North American automakers might not like SL and earlier oils due to emissions systems warranties, but that's another matter altogether.

 

[SilverC6]

Thanks for all the insights guys.

I apologize to the OP for carrying the discussion a little too far off topic.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
I hope GC is alive and well in the US market five years from now.

But it seems to me that US retail distribution is already limited (Autozone) and BP Castrol is heavily focused on its newest 0W-40 product that replaces GC in almost all applications.

By dirty I was referring to the stuff that EPA measures coming out of the tailpipe, not the cleanliness of the piston skirt.

As we all know, recent oil formulations in the US have been driven by federal emissions and fuel enonomy goals. Is the move to an API SN 0W-40 a reaction by Castrol to that trend?


Which are less stringent then Euro norms. If you are worried about emissions, you should now that ACEA A3,B3/B4 and C3 or C4 are much more stringent then any API norm.
API SN has to do more with fuel dilution in oil and degradation of oil caused by high content of sulphur in gas and ethanol (corn ethanol).
Still, MB 229.5, BMW LL-01 and especially MB229.51, BMW LL-04 or VW
On the note GC or not. In EU you do have available new version of 0W30, with Mid-SAPS formulation, for years now. It might happen that that formulation eventually comes to the U.S.
Also, GC cannot meet SN not because Castrol cannot make oil like that.
From practical experience, I prefer GC much more the M1, that meets SN, but does not work as good (IMO).


Huh

Why can't castrol make oils like what?
You've lost me here. What do you mean. What can't they make?

 

[Garak]

I think he means that Castrol would not be able to make GC 0w-30 an SN oil without ruining their European specifications, thanks to phosphorous limits, being A3/B3 A3/B4. The only way I can think of to have an SN 0w-30 with that much phosphorous would be to start with the API diesel spec, first, and that wouldn't make formulating for the European specs any easier.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Garak
I think he means that Castrol would not be able to make GC 0w-30 an SN oil without ruining their European specifications, thanks to phosphorous limits, being A3/B3 A3/B4. The only way I can think of to have an SN 0w-30 with that much phosphorous would be to start with the API diesel spec, first, and that wouldn't make formulating for the European specs any easier.



Ohhhhhh. K. I see.
So the zddp is too high to be an SN so it has to stay SL but the 40 grade can have the same amount of zddp but because its a 40 grade it can be SN.
Got it.
If that's the case then they should leave it alone. It's got a loyal following, its a proven good oil in the applications it's specified for and it's fairly easy to find.

 

[Garak]

Yep, and there are differences if it's a dual rated oil, too, with the CJ-4 before the SM or SN, like Delvac Elite 222 0w-30. They might as well leave it. It's not like there's a lot of competition out there. Plenty are out there "on paper," but finding them in a store is rather difficult. No one can ever accuse Castrol of being shy in obtaining shelf space in Canada.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
If that's the case then they should leave it alone.

Yes.

Although I think the point others were making (which I agree with) is that now that Castrol 0w-40 is widely available, GC is redundant. Castrol 0w-40 meets all the same specs that GC does, and it also meets Porsche A40 spec since it's an Xw-40 grade.

 

[Garak]

I wonder how well GC sells outside of European applications. We do know people here use it for things other than European vehicles. Perhaps there are more than we might know of, who might prefer to avoid a 40 or would be afraid of that grade. Personally, I would see nothing "wrong" with GC for a lot of applications, aside from the cost of having to buy individual quarts rather than jugs.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Garak
I wonder how well GC sells outside of European applications. We do know people here use it for things other than European vehicles. Perhaps there are more than we might know of, who might prefer to avoid a 40 or would be afraid of that grade. Personally, I would see nothing "wrong" with GC for a lot of applications, aside from the cost of having to buy individual quarts rather than jugs.

I thin a lot of Subaru owners are using it.

 

[Garak]

And I can certainly envision (and know) people who would be adventurous enough to try a 0w-30, yet wouldn't really understand that GC isn't a resource conserving grade but would still be afraid to try a 0w-40. Of course, that's one of the cases where what one doesn't know won't hurt them, and helps Castrol sales. GC is quite easy to find here, at just about every parts store, Walmart, and Canadian Tire.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Garak
I wonder how well GC sells outside of European applications. We do know people here use it for things other than European vehicles. Perhaps there are more than we might know of, who might prefer to avoid a 40 or would be afraid of that grade. Personally, I would see nothing "wrong" with GC for a lot of applications, aside from the cost of having to buy individual quarts rather than jugs.

I thin a lot of Subaru owners are using it.


It used to be the 'go to' oil for LS1/x owners on the car specific forums who wanted a full synthetic oil.