Resume's and no college education...

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Amen!

I have software engineering AND an electrical engineering degree. I tell folks if their job can be done at a keyboard it can be done by the lowest bidder anywhere in the world.

That is one of the reasons I do post sales support. Once the gear is on the ground, you are servicing it in that data center. It may not be sexy, and I have to be on-call about once a month. But it's hard to outsource physically touching the gear.

I'm Mr Goodwrench for computers
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I hold most if not all the old Sun Microsystems certifications. I'm nearly 50 and going to school at night to get my CCNA. Don't want all my eggs in one basket. My employer pays my tuition and books as long as I get a B or better, and they can't take that from me if my job goes away.

At some point, I need to update my Sun certs to Oracle Solaris 11. But right now, I'm still good with my Solaris 10, Clustering, Java and Solaris Networking certs.


Originally Posted By: Win
I have dead end jobs and people with college degrees applying for them.

The economy is trashed. Instead of being fixed, the people in charge are driving it farther and deeper into the spin. Soon the spin will be a death spiral.

Learn a trade. That can't be outsourced. IT sounds like it can be easily outsourced. And if it can be, it will be.
 
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My wife's company has numerous different types of management positions, one being a security manager. She told me that they would bypass a 20 year retired police veteran with no college for a fresh out of college 22 year old that has never had a job.

While I can certainly understand the quality of an education, bypassing a veteran cop with years of life experience over a pimply faced kid for a security manager position is not only crazy, but stupid crazy.

She tells me numerous story's like this. They apparently like to hire 22-24 year old college kids for management positions than someone with life experience, like a retired combat veteran, for example.
 
Because they want to mold them in the company way.

I recall working with a bunch of "kids" from Andersen Consulting in the 1990's. They get them right out of school and teach them the AC way.

Not much use for someone like me who was almost 10 years older. But then, I could think outside the box and make broken things work so the other 70 odd developers could keep billing hours.

Not everyone wants experience. Some want clay with potential. Someone they can mold to fit their machine.
 
The company we outsourced to in 2012 moved to new office space last year and did not move any physical servers with them but when totally to the cloud. My thought if if they can keep their business up and running being cloud base maybe they can do the same for our small business.

In our case we have needed four new servers for some time and all but one is showing a flashing light for one reason or another. In most cases it is one side of their dual power supply died but on is a mirrored HD failure. We do back up data each evening but having an IT/Dev background I am not comfortable in the least with the state of our physical servers but in March we are going to get connectivity started in the new location so we are ready before 30 April to make the change.

We have been to the Cloudy with two applications for about 8 years.
 
Will graduate in six months...probably won't find a job.

Currently unemployed.

The market sucks.

I'm about to grab a bartender job at this point. I hate the environment...but I can make 300+ a night. Been there done that...bought the alcoholic t-shirts.

My advice: learn a trade or work for your local government.
 
A good portion of this equation relates directly to salary. The college grad starts out much lower than a very experienced veteran would. Unless you, as someone with experience, is willing to haggle your salary with the hiring manager then they will always default to the young hire with papers. They do this because of the bottom line.

A 22 year old hired on as a security manager? That is absolutely the most illogical thought process ever in a hire situation.

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
My wife's company has numerous different types of management positions, one being a security manager. She told me that they would bypass a 20 year retired police veteran with no college for a fresh out of college 22 year old that has never had a job.

While I can certainly understand the quality of an education, bypassing a veteran cop with years of life experience over a pimply faced kid for a security manager position is not only crazy, but stupid crazy.

She tells me numerous story's like this. They apparently like to hire 22-24 year old college kids for management positions than someone with life experience, like a retired combat veteran, for example.
 
Dont forget that thermo also arrives with experience under his belt. Combine that with certifications and any hiring manager would be silly to overlook him.

Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: Challenger71
Getting your certs is what's important. Don't concern yourself with college degrees.



I don't agree with that.

As a hiring manager, having the cert is a good thing, but it's only part of the equation. Having the cert doesn't necessarily prove competency -- it proves you can memorize enough things to pass the exam. Obviously some of the exams are harder and do require practical experience, but certs are not the end-all, be-all.
 
As some one else has said, I am that "jack of all trades" for it in this company, at least outside the corporate head office.

I am actually quite sick of the treatment I have been getting as of late so finding something better has come to mind. Locked out of systems I had full access to because the IT in corporate doesn't want anyone touching this or that. If I am suppose to manage my location how does remotely locking me out accomplish that?

Well I am going to apply to some things anyway, see how it pans out.

At the very worst I could also apply for some maintenance/boiler stuff as I've done that in the past.
 
The rub for you is that if you are simply sending the resume you have a huge filter on it. No degree no job.

It is possible to get a great job without a degree however as time passes this is becoming harder with a larger pool of folks unemployed with them. Personally the great job without degree is luck, right place, hard work, personality and potential/flexibility.

Have you considered getting a degree to become a university hire many companies seek. The experience you have already is icing on the cake.
 
I would love to do that I just wonder about the financial strain it might cause on the family. We barely make it now that both girls are in daycare full time.
 
Originally Posted By: Challenger71
Getting your certs is what's important. Don't concern yourself with college degrees.


Getting past the first round of resume screeners is what's important. And for many/most white collar jobs, that means a bachelors degree in something.

My company hired an outsider with ~10 years of experience (at a related by somewhat different company in the industry) and a bachelors over someone who worked for the company for ~20 years in almost every position in that department and had the respect of everyone in that department but was 3 credits shy of earning her bachelors degree. No degree, no job.

It's foolish in some instances, but that's the way it is these days.

And for the young guys reading this thread, get your master's degree or learn a trade. If you can do either of those on Uncle Sam's dime, all the better. An exception might be certain credentials such as CPA or PE.

To the OP, many accredited schools offer online degree programs, not just the big names like University of Phoenix. I worked full time as an undergrad and as a graduate student. It isn't easy or fun, but it can be done.

On job ads that say "XYZ Recommended", it may as well say required, because with the garbage economy, 200 people will apply for the job and most will have the "recommended" skill/degree/credential.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
She tells me numerous story's like this. They apparently like to hire 22-24 year old college kids for management positions than someone with life experience, like a retired combat veteran, for example.


My wife's employer has bank branch presidents that are in their mid to late 20s. They get them fresh out of college and put them in their management programs. Those who are willing to move all over the place climb the ladder very quickly.
 
What the degree indicates to a point is this candidate can make a decision, follow through on that decision to the point of completion.

Having a degree and a good work record BUT be 60 years old often means the end of the road professionally.
 
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
I would love to do that I just wonder about the financial strain it might cause on the family. We barely make it now that both girls are in daycare full time.


I'd continue the education, but at the end of the day, they pay you to be there for a reason: because you wouldn't be there for free. Sucky jobs suck, but in the end you have to decide if sticking it out for a known check vs striking it out for greener grass is worth it. For myself, with kids and whatnot I'm pretty reluctant to make big changes. Unless if I have to. Thankfully I like my job, but there are certainly times I don't. Right now I'd rather put in my hours and go home, rather than learn a new corporate culture, new coworkers, new procedures, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
^^^ Ya I hear that.

I am going to just have to bite the bullet and do it.


Look at your state schools first as they will be the least expensive. Many are quite good, and most of them will have a better reputation than for-profit schools.

State schools will usually accept credits from community colleges with no problem, and it is usually cheaper to do that when you can, especially for basic prereqs like english, history, stats, etc.

Perhaps your employer offers tuition reimbursement?
 
It is important to know what you want to go to college for. Since you are already doing IT, try to get a [censored] in Computer Science, it really goes a long way helping out your career if you want to move up.

Now if you are just going into general study or other liberal arts, probably college is not worth it.
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
It is important to know what you want to go to college for. Since you are already doing IT, try to get a [censored] in Computer Science, it really goes a long way helping out your career if you want to move up.

Now if you are just going into general study or other liberal arts, probably college is not worth it.


I had to quote this, just to find out what was getting censored. The "BachelorS" term is doing, when you abbreviate it.
 
The importance of a degree depends somewhat on corporate policy, and often more on who is doing the resume screening. I hired may people with no regard for their education, including for six figure management positions. I was always much more concerned with their experience, enthusiasm, spirit, and work ethic. You can train skills, but you can't train attitude, and I had no time for "down-lookers". I also fired more degreed people than I did non-degreed.

Don't let their listed requirements deter you - send your resume anyway. Just make sure your resume clearly shows your enthusiasm and highlights your experience - make it stand out, and list your education near the bottom. The worse they can do is throw it away.

BTW, I retired early as a VP with just a HS degree.

Tom NJ
 
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