Anyone found much debris in their filters after use?

jsharp · Mar 11, 2004

I've cut a number of used filters open now and I must say, I've never found anything in them visible to the naked eye. The last one was a filter from my 220,000 mile Nissan and used during the Auto-rx rinse phase. Nothing visible in it either. Dirty oil in the can and that's it.

I'm going to let it dry out some and look at it with some magnification and see if I notice anything.

My gut feeling on this is that the old tale about filters plugging after X number of miles is a myth with modern oils and engines. It looks to me like as long as the media is still in good shape that changing them during long drains for fear of plugging is not a worry...

labman · Mar 11, 2004

Finely divided metal looks black. 325 grit sandpaper has about 30 micron particles. Compare a piece of it to the used oil and oil filter. I am trying to remember if the inside is as dark as the outside of filters I have cut open. The filters have a range of pore sizes. They will capture smaller particles than they are rated for, just not efficiently, the bigger pores will continue to let the smaller particles by.

I have suggested before, what I would like to see is some data on how well filters are flowing at the end of the OCI? We know the efficiency goes up and flow goes down, but how much?

dickwells · Mar 11, 2004

I found cork in one after changing the rocker cover gaskets. I have also seen sludge in the bottom of a open end up filter after I started using Mobil1 in an older car. It apparently was stopped by the filter as it was removed, then would drain down to the bottom and stick.

Steve S · Mar 11, 2004

Oil filters do clog, usually the bypass opens and no one knows the difference.

[ March 11, 2004, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Steve S ]

Roger · Mar 11, 2004

Never found much gunk in the filter media itself. However, I have noticed on a few occassions that if you leave a small amount of used oil sit in a glass jar for a week or so after draining it out of the engine that a noticeable amount of fine, silt-like "mud" will settle to the bottom of the jar. I did this once after an Auto RX treatment and the difference was pretty obvious.

Thomas Pyrek · Mar 11, 2004

due to not having the proper tools, the only time I cut open used oil filters in the past were when I was doing some sort of engine flush. Before I knew of this board I would use ATF (I've done it twice on one of my cars) and cut each open. Both filter elements were dirt, dirt, dirty and had a small amound of black ooze coming out of them. I'm actually quite curious to see how the AutoRX filter is going to look.

Spector · Mar 11, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by jsharp:
My gut feeling on this is that the old tale about filters plugging after X number of miles is a myth with modern oils and engines. It looks to me like as long as the media is still in good shape that changing them during long drains for fear of plugging is not a worry...

I concur and my experience is exactly what you state. Bob's recent test with no filter also, IMO, substantiated that filters are pretty much a useless appendage that we are forced to purchase,change etc. for piece of mind versus their ability to extend an engine's life

cryptokid · Mar 11, 2004

i cut open my filter after 7000 miles and it looked like new.

alot of car makers (honda mazda etc) spec oil filter changes every 15,000 miles, and i believe they are right. from now on i will only change my filter at the manf recomended service interval of 15,000 miles.

Thomas Pyrek · Mar 11, 2004

does anyone have a link to Bob's filterless UOA?

I did search but I failed to find it.

seldont · Mar 11, 2004

For what it is worth I remember my grandfather's old 68 Mercury 390 recommended 6000 mile oil changes and the filter to be changed every 12,000 miles or very 2nd change. Since that is what the manufacturer recommended that is what he did. He bought that car in 1969 and it was sold in 1995 with 125,000. He never once varied in all those years. Never had to add a quart between changes that I ever heard of. That was using nothing but Southern States house brand straight 30 weight and Fram PH8A filters. I must say I think sometimes we try to over analyze. Who knows???

Spector · Mar 11, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Pyrek:
does anyone have a link to Bob's filterless UOA?

I did search but I failed to find it.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000211;p=5#000152

quadrun1 · Mar 11, 2004

Oil filters do work.

jsharp · Mar 11, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by quadrun1:
Oil filters do work.

See, this was what I might have expected to see. All I ever see is dirty oil, slightly dirtier on one side than the other of course, but no real sludge or anything else noteworthy. I'm going to keep labmans numbers in mind and look at one element I have around that came off our Nissan but use some magnification. After 220k and the A-rx rinse I think I'd see something anyway...

jsharp · Mar 11, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Roger:
Never found much gunk in the filter media itself. However, I have noticed on a few occassions that if you leave a small amount of used oil sit in a glass jar for a week or so after draining it out of the engine that a noticeable amount of fine, silt-like "mud" will settle to the bottom of the jar. I did this once after an Auto RX treatment and the difference was pretty obvious.

This is what I should have done. Drained the oil out of the filter and into a clear container...

crossbow · Mar 11, 2004

If you angle a flash correctly, it'll pick up thousands of minute particles in the filter.

Here's a filter with 900 miles on it, 900 miles on the engine (breakin).

Note the rather large metal chunk in the center of the pleat. The pleats tearing was due to my own fingers. This is a motorcraft FL-820S off a Mazda 6s.

cryptokid · Mar 12, 2004

i dont think anyone doubts the usefullness of a filter during breakin.

ZR2RANDO · Mar 13, 2004

Personally, I don't doubt the usefullness of a filter, period.
Rando

RavenTai · Mar 13, 2004

I think the reason none here sees a lot of stuff in thier filters is they are changing thier oil and filter Before there is a problem as it should be, if you motor is in good shape the only dirt to get in will be very small particls that get past the air filter and then past the rings in blow-by, most of this is to small to see

my neighbor bought a Toyota truck that had poor maintenance and a lot of hard off roading from the previous owner we cut open the filter and the pleats were chock full of black grit some of it quite large, you could scoop about half a teaspoon from between each pleat, looked like black sand but I think it was hard carbon deposits

quote:

Originally posted by jsharp:
My gut feeling on this is that the old tale about filters plugging after X number of miles is a myth with modern oils and engines. It looks to me like as long as the media is still in good shape that changing them during long drains for fear of plugging is not a worry...

I would agree with this, a good quality filter in a clean Engine should be able to go 10k, that is as far as I would push oil/filter

[ March 14, 2004, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: RavenTai ]

Grease is the word · Mar 16, 2004

My daughter bought a used 150K mile '96 Taurus with 3L V6. Like a good girl she had the oil changed at an Iffy Lube after she got it. I assisted her changing it 3K miles later. I could not believe the crap that came out of the drain. It was like sand was mixed in. I curiously cut open the fram built Iffy filter and ran my fingers in the pleats and there was black grit on my fingers. You could see it caked in the pleats. I was amazed.

She is currently on a ARX clean cycle.

Schultz · Mar 21, 2004

What's ARX?

Anyone found much debris in their filters after use?

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