Liqui Moly Ceratec

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demarpaint this is the kind of stuff that drives me up the wall but does not stop me from wading through the manure for answers.
smile.gif


If Ceratec contains moly as some posts indicate this email would be more marketing hype than hard core science.

When I have time I want to learn more how it bonds, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
demarpaint this is the kind of stuff that drives me up the wall but does not stop me from wading through the manure for answers.
smile.gif


If Ceratec contains moly as some posts indicate this email would be more marketing hype than hard core science.

When I have time I want to learn more how it bonds, etc.


Sorry about that. Ceratec contains no moly. What I believed was Ceratec was a 30K mile treatment, and from reading all over the WWW you could use MoS2 after the Ceratec treatment. From the email it seems that's not the way to go.
21.gif
Pick one and use it is what I got out of the email. Ceratec is a 30K treatment, MoS2 is used at each OCI.

I think MoS2 would prevent Ceratec from bonding, so that makes sense. However I also thought if you decided to use Ceratec once it bonded using MoS2 was fine, however 30K miles later when it came time to use Ceratec again you'd have the MoS2 issue to contend with.
 
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
demarpaint this is the kind of stuff that drives me up the wall but does not stop me from wading through the manure for answers.
smile.gif


If Ceratec contains moly as some posts indicate this email would be more marketing hype than hard core science.

When I have time I want to learn more how it bonds, etc.



Heat and pressure force it into the inconsistencies of the metal surfaces and anneals them,creating an extremely hard and perfectly smooth surface.

Thanks dp for emailing them. Since I've got ceratec in the charger I'll quit adding mos2 now.
I wonder if an ester oil would improve lubrication due to the polarized nature of the basestock.
Gonna have to give redline a shot in the spring and see.
I'd love some g-oil at 21 a jug like the walmarts are closing it out at now.
 
No problem Clevy. I'm not sure about the esters, shoot them an email. I will say this, they get back to you quick!
 
At lunch I was thinking more about one additive competing for the same 'hole' to fill. I went with Mobil High Mileage to get the higher zinc, phosphorus and moly. I may have just wasted my money on the Ceratec if the moly keeps the hexagonal boron nitride from reaching the metal surface.

In the real world I have never lost an engine when just using good oil with NO third party additives.

Now I am going to have to learn more about which additive may have been of benefit it this project engine.
smile.gif


I did read they started using MoS2 in aircraft in WWII to add to the run time of an engine after it would loose all of its motor oil from gun fire so the pilot had a better change of crashing a more friendly area.

The stories about car engines running 300 miles without any motor oil after running an additive containing hexagonal boron nitride like in the Ceratec class of additives is hard for me to buy into at this point but I am trying to be open minded.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I've been doing a lot of reading up on this product, here and in other places. While I think it is a good product, like others they make I was a little disappointed to find out from the company that once you use this product they recommend you don't use anything else. In other words if you do an initial treatment with Ceratec, DO NOT use MoS2 in subsequent oil changes. Although a little vague, here is their reply to an email I sent them.

I asked how long they recommend waiting to add it to a new car, and if MoS2 could be used in subsequent oil changes.

Not that that's a bad thing, but it has been discussed before here, and I think there are a few members switching off, etc.

Dear Mr. Dexxx,

thank you very much for contacting us and your interest in our LIQUI MOLY products.

CEAR TEC is a combination of a chemical friction modifier and a solid lubricant,. It increases lubrication and reduces friction and wear. We recommend you to use CERA TEC from beginning on, even the car is brand new. So you´ll have the best prevention and protection from beginning on.
The ideal dosage of CERA TEC is around 6%.
If you use CERA TEC please do not add anozher friction modifier like MoS2 into the oil because CERA TEC is already a friction modifier.

Please see the attachement for further product informations :




We hope we could help you with our informations. Should you have further questions regarding our products we would be very pleased to get contacted from you again.

Best regards


After doing some reading this evening I am not sure what the writer of this email from Liqui Moly was trying to say.

This is from the Liqui Moly Ceratec web site:

'The effect of Cera Tec has been confirmed in extensive tests by the TÜV Thuringia in Germany. Of course, Cera Tec is compatible with all motor oils and their additives.'

If this is the case then Moly will not interfere with Ceratec working. However at this time I do not understand the chemistry/physics of how hexagonal boron nitride works in an engine. I can read the marketing materials yet the specific of the HOW escapes me.
 
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I've been doing a lot of reading up on this product, here and in other places. While I think it is a good product, like others they make I was a little disappointed to find out from the company that once you use this product they recommend you don't use anything else. In other words if you do an initial treatment with Ceratec, DO NOT use MoS2 in subsequent oil changes. Although a little vague, here is their reply to an email I sent them.

I asked how long they recommend waiting to add it to a new car, and if MoS2 could be used in subsequent oil changes.

Not that that's a bad thing, but it has been discussed before here, and I think there are a few members switching off, etc.

Dear Mr. Dexxx,

thank you very much for contacting us and your interest in our LIQUI MOLY products.

CEAR TEC is a combination of a chemical friction modifier and a solid lubricant,. It increases lubrication and reduces friction and wear. We recommend you to use CERA TEC from beginning on, even the car is brand new. So you´ll have the best prevention and protection from beginning on.
The ideal dosage of CERA TEC is around 6%.
If you use CERA TEC please do not add anozher friction modifier like MoS2 into the oil because CERA TEC is already a friction modifier.

Please see the attachement for further product informations :




We hope we could help you with our informations. Should you have further questions regarding our products we would be very pleased to get contacted from you again.

Best regards


After doing some reading this evening I am not sure what the writer of this email from Liqui Moly was trying to say.

This is from the Liqui Moly Ceratec web site:

'The effect of Cera Tec has been confirmed in extensive tests by the TÜV Thuringia in Germany. Of course, Cera Tec is compatible with all motor oils and their additives.'

If this is the case then Moly will not interfere with Ceratec working. However at this time I do not understand the chemistry/physics of how hexagonal boron nitride works in an engine. I can read the marketing materials yet the specific of the HOW escapes me.




The key is in the wording: Quote from your post "Of course, Cera Tec is compatible with all motor oils and their additives."

To me that means all motor oils and their ad packs. Not all aftermarket oil additives. IIRC it is a German company and there might be a little lost in translation. You can shoot them an email, they are great at getting back to you.
 
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
True but I was thinking about Moly which is in Mobil 1 High Mileage.

I guess I can find an email address on their site.


That is part of the ad-pack not an OTC additive. According to their wording it should be fine.
 
I dug-up the e-mail from Liqui-Moly of Germany last summer:

Quote:

From: "Harry Hartkorn"
To:
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 4:44:33 AM
Subject: Antwort: WG: Questions About Cera-Tec and Lubro-Moly MoS2

Hello Mr. ......

Sorry for being so late but I've had problems with me account.

Concerning your question about the CERA TEC - this is the best friction modifier we have at the moment. It's specially developed for aluminum based engines to protect the surface by chemical agents and solid lubricants.

We recommend a ratio of 5% - 6% because there may be an influence on the additive package of the oil. In combination - 5000 miles oil changing intervals and CERA TEC - I suggest the usage of CERA TEC at the first oil change and the usage of MoS2 based friction modifier the next 2 oil drains ( to fill up the loss of the solid lubricant particles with the oil ). The chemical component of the CERA TEC will stay in the surface for a long time and so you don't need to replenish it at every oil change.

The solid lubricant in both products protects the surface of the engine at every condition ( specially in extreme conditions where the oil isn't able to build up a stable lubrication - engine starting - lubrication at the first moment -, extreme pressure and hot conditions )

I hope I could help you and sorry again for the late answer.


Best Regards from Ulm

i. A.

Harry Hartkorn
Anwendungstechniker
application engineer

Phone: +49 731 / 14 20 - 895
Mobile: +49 172 / 7 24 84 85
Fax: +49 731 / 14 20 - 44895

LIQUI MOLY GMBH
F & E / Anwendungstechnik
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4
D-89081 Ulm

www.liqui-moly.de

Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost

Unquote
 
Thanks 147_grain. Before I read this I did send an email asking this and specifically how the ceramic bonding occurs.

Clearly molybdenum in a crank case will not cause an issue with Ceratec because with any engine with an oil cooler one never gets a 100% change out typically.

Since somehow the hexagonal boron nitride particles is coming out of the oil and bonding to the metals I can see how they could be used up before everything gets well coated perhaps but science may prove that not to be true.

I have been reading this site for years for info but finally joined because on many other sites there is an 'interest' in oils but not down to the chemistry level.
smile.gif
Somehow I totally missed how nano technology had come to motor oil like hexagonal boron nitride. If it turns out to be as good as it sounds we are going to do our twenty engines around the place.
 
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
I dug-up the e-mail from Liqui-Moly of Germany last summer:

Quote:

From: "Harry Hartkorn"
To:
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 4:44:33 AM
Subject: Antwort: WG: Questions About Cera-Tec and Lubro-Moly MoS2

Hello Mr. ......

Sorry for being so late but I've had problems with me account.

Concerning your question about the CERA TEC - this is the best friction modifier we have at the moment. It's specially developed for aluminum based engines to protect the surface by chemical agents and solid lubricants.

We recommend a ratio of 5% - 6% because there may be an influence on the additive package of the oil. In combination - 5000 miles oil changing intervals and CERA TEC - I suggest the usage of CERA TEC at the first oil change and the usage of MoS2 based friction modifier the next 2 oil drains ( to fill up the loss of the solid lubricant particles with the oil ). The chemical component of the CERA TEC will stay in the surface for a long time and so you don't need to replenish it at every oil change.

The solid lubricant in both products protects the surface of the engine at every condition ( specially in extreme conditions where the oil isn't able to build up a stable lubrication - engine starting - lubrication at the first moment -, extreme pressure and hot conditions )

I hope I could help you and sorry again for the late answer.


Best Regards from Ulm

i. A.

Harry Hartkorn
Anwendungstechniker
application engineer

Phone: +49 731 / 14 20 - 895
Mobile: +49 172 / 7 24 84 85
Fax: +49 731 / 14 20 - 44895

LIQUI MOLY GMBH
F & E / Anwendungstechnik
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4
D-89081 Ulm

www.liqui-moly.de

Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost

Unquote



Awesome info.
Thanks 147grain
 
It seems to contradict what they sent me. My reply came from a different person.

I sent another email hoping to clear things up. I'll post the reply when I get it.
 
I did not know Liqui Moly was such an international company. I got a reply last night within a couple hours using the email address on their English web site. It seems that Roland was based in Thailand. He stated he had forward my info request to the technical department.

They leverage off of the Made In Germany labeling and are spending 20 million Euros to add production capacity in Germany and seem to have around 600 employees today. The website stated the USA market is exploding. Getting NAPA on board and all the internet sellers is helping I am sure. At 62 I never had heard of them but they seem to be a major source for oils for many MB, BMW, etc and the number one rated oil source by Germany car mags for the Germany market.

demarpaint I hope you get a straight shooting email from them and I hope for the same. 147grain I expect got the factual email.
 
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins


demarpaint I hope you get a straight shooting email from them and I hope for the same. 147grain I expect got the factual email.


This came about 1 minute ago. These guys are fantastic when it comes to answering emails, although I find them a little difficult to understand. This time I think he's saying it OK to use MoS2 after Ceratec if you run a shorter OCI. That's not what I thought the first go around. I changed my wording a bit hoping to make it easier for him to understand me.

I will say this, their CS is second to none!

Their reply is underlined.
----------------------------------------------
Hello again,

Can Ceratec be used each time you change the oil? Added at 6% sump capacity, if so I'll stick with that. - Yes, absolutely the best solution. But if you change the oil every 10000 km it will be expensive for you.

Or can you use Ceratec once and then use MoS2 after the oil interval is complete and you're due for an oil change? - In case of changing the oil after max. 15.000 km we recommend to use one time Cera Tec and one time MoS2. So you have a good protection and less costs comparing to use Cewra Tec every time.
If you do longer oil change interval than 15.000 km use Cera Tec each time.
 
For some reason I cannot log in so I am using another computer.
I added Liqui Moly to Toyota V6 contains 6.4 qts. of oil so I added 300ML of Moly, with 25K miles on engine. Just added today and am very excited about the potential benefits. Please lets continue this discussion. C
 
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