I use 5.3 oz per oil change in my 1981 Cj-7. Engine is a Chevy 350 4 bolt (block was built in 1977) with a Rhodes cam and lifters. Cam has a .435 lift intake and exhaust. Lifters are flat tappet variable duration. It is a retro engine and will benifit from the added ZDDP. I use just plain jane YBP for every oil change. The 5.3 oz of Red Line oil additive will raise Zinc BY 736 ppm with a five qt oil change and Phosphorous BY 611 ppm. If you getting close,when rebuilding a small block chevy to a 1 to 1 ratio (HP/cu. in.) I believe added ZDDP is necessary, The SBC while a great engine does have some problems and camshafts being the most prevalent. The other valve guides and ZDDP additive will help there also.
Redline Engine Break-In Additive
- Thread starter Taylor
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I used the Redline stuff whe I first started up the 392 IHC I rebuilt for my pickup.
I added 1/2 bottle to 6 qts of Rotella SAE30. Ran it @ 2000 rpm for 20 minutes, brought it to idle adjusted the timing, added more coolant and went around the block 2x. Then pulled the drain plug.
I added 1/2 bottle to 6 qts of Rotella SAE30. Ran it @ 2000 rpm for 20 minutes, brought it to idle adjusted the timing, added more coolant and went around the block 2x. Then pulled the drain plug.
"How Much ZDP is Enough?" is a controversial topic. It's the title of SAE technical paper 2004-01-2986. It basically advocates relatively low levels of P = 500-800 ppm except for break-in of hotrodded flat tappet engines.
OTOH paper 2000-01-1993 "Performance of an Advanced Synthetic Diesel Engine Oil" states that Mobil increased the Zn/P concentrations from 1300/1160 to 1490/1350 ppm in developing the CH4 version of Delvac 1 in order to better protect against soot-caused wear in the valvetrain (including rocker arm area) and rings.
So 3 engineers from one of the leading diesel synthetic oil mfgs are quoted as supporting Zn/P concentrations to that level because of the wear-inducing effects of high soot concentrations.
A big warning: Zn or P concentrations over 2000 ppm can attack camshaft hardened coatings and cause catastrophic camshaft failure, i.e. "chunking". Do your arithmetic carefully if using these additives.
Charlie
OTOH paper 2000-01-1993 "Performance of an Advanced Synthetic Diesel Engine Oil" states that Mobil increased the Zn/P concentrations from 1300/1160 to 1490/1350 ppm in developing the CH4 version of Delvac 1 in order to better protect against soot-caused wear in the valvetrain (including rocker arm area) and rings.
So 3 engineers from one of the leading diesel synthetic oil mfgs are quoted as supporting Zn/P concentrations to that level because of the wear-inducing effects of high soot concentrations.
A big warning: Zn or P concentrations over 2000 ppm can attack camshaft hardened coatings and cause catastrophic camshaft failure, i.e. "chunking". Do your arithmetic carefully if using these additives.
Charlie
MolaKule
Staff member
If I were rebuilding, I would simply soak the individual parts going into the build with this stuff and coat every moving part with it.
JHZR2
Staff member
I wonder what the effect of schaeffer's 132, LC20 and this stuff would be...
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I wonder what the effect of schaeffer's 132, LC20 and this stuff would be...
Probably one heck of a fine mix!
I wonder what the effect of schaeffer's 132, LC20 and this stuff would be...
Probably one heck of a fine mix!
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
You could buy Calcium Carbonate in laboratory grade and add to oil yourself. Thats all they are doing.
No, it's a CaS compound:
Quote:
Multifunctional Additives (in Alphabetical Order) listed as to Functional Agent, additive category, general or specific chemical compound, and how it works, respectively.
Antifoamants or foam inhibitors (Protective Additive): polymers such as silicone polymers and organic copolymers of the silaxane's; creates a lens that reduces the bubble's surface tension.
Antioxidants or oxidation inhibitors (Protective Additive): ZDDP, ZTDC, Moly TDC, Antimony TDC, aromatic amines such as organic tolutriazoles, thiadiazoles, diphenylamines, olefin sulfides, carboxylic acids; decomposes peroxides and terminates free radical reactions. Increases temperature of base oil at which base oil may tend to oxidize. Oxidation of oil promotes polymerization of sludge particles and increases viscosity.
Anti-Wear and Extreme Pressure Additives (Surface Protective Additive):
ZDDP, ZTDC, Moly TDC, Antimony TDC, Organic Sulfur-Phosphorus-Nitrogen compounds, Borates and Borate Esters, Tricresyl Phosphates, amine phostphates, and other phosphate esters, Chlorine compounds, and lead diamylcarbamates, lead and barium naphthenates, sulfurized olefins; protective film interacts at various temperatures and pressures to provide either a plastic interface or to provide a compound which shears at the surface.
Demulsifier (Performance Additive): hydroxyalkyl carboxylic esters, alkenlycarboxylic esters; keeps water separated from lubricant.
Detergents (Surface Protective Additive): metallo-organic compounds of sodium, calcium, magnesium, boron phenolates, phosphates and sulfonates such as alkylbenzene sulfonic acids, alkylphenol sulfides, alkylsalacyclic acids; Lift deposits from surfaces to keep them suspended.
You could buy Calcium Carbonate in laboratory grade and add to oil yourself. Thats all they are doing.
No, it's a CaS compound:
Quote:
Multifunctional Additives (in Alphabetical Order) listed as to Functional Agent, additive category, general or specific chemical compound, and how it works, respectively.
Antifoamants or foam inhibitors (Protective Additive): polymers such as silicone polymers and organic copolymers of the silaxane's; creates a lens that reduces the bubble's surface tension.
Antioxidants or oxidation inhibitors (Protective Additive): ZDDP, ZTDC, Moly TDC, Antimony TDC, aromatic amines such as organic tolutriazoles, thiadiazoles, diphenylamines, olefin sulfides, carboxylic acids; decomposes peroxides and terminates free radical reactions. Increases temperature of base oil at which base oil may tend to oxidize. Oxidation of oil promotes polymerization of sludge particles and increases viscosity.
Anti-Wear and Extreme Pressure Additives (Surface Protective Additive):
ZDDP, ZTDC, Moly TDC, Antimony TDC, Organic Sulfur-Phosphorus-Nitrogen compounds, Borates and Borate Esters, Tricresyl Phosphates, amine phostphates, and other phosphate esters, Chlorine compounds, and lead diamylcarbamates, lead and barium naphthenates, sulfurized olefins; protective film interacts at various temperatures and pressures to provide either a plastic interface or to provide a compound which shears at the surface.
Demulsifier (Performance Additive): hydroxyalkyl carboxylic esters, alkenlycarboxylic esters; keeps water separated from lubricant.
Detergents (Surface Protective Additive): metallo-organic compounds of sodium, calcium, magnesium, boron phenolates, phosphates and sulfonates such as alkylbenzene sulfonic acids, alkylphenol sulfides, alkylsalacyclic acids; Lift deposits from surfaces to keep them suspended.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
If I were rebuilding, I would simply soak the individual parts going into the build with this stuff and coat every moving part with it.
Don't forget to shake the bottle first.
I've used this stuff and something grey in colour settles out of the red tinted oil in short order. Would it be ZDDP?
If I were rebuilding, I would simply soak the individual parts going into the build with this stuff and coat every moving part with it.
Don't forget to shake the bottle first.
I've used this stuff and something grey in colour settles out of the red tinted oil in short order. Would it be ZDDP?
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
If I were rebuilding, I would simply soak the individual parts going into the build with this stuff and coat every moving part with it.
Don't forget to shake the bottle first.
I've used this stuff and something grey in colour settles out of the red tinted oil in short order. Would it be ZDDP?
I'd like to know too.
This stuff looks like pure add pack (probably SJ, given the P ratio) in carrier oil. I wonder who's add pack it is?
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
If I were rebuilding, I would simply soak the individual parts going into the build with this stuff and coat every moving part with it.
Don't forget to shake the bottle first.
I've used this stuff and something grey in colour settles out of the red tinted oil in short order. Would it be ZDDP?
I'd like to know too.
This stuff looks like pure add pack (probably SJ, given the P ratio) in carrier oil. I wonder who's add pack it is?
It is 1:1 Zn:Ca. A normal add pack ratio would be 1:2 or 1:3. And I don't think it has any ashless dispersants, antioxidants, etc etc.
Charlie
Charlie
So would it be beneficial to run it on say my Stang's 4.6 built short block?
Rotating assembly is forged
Rotating assembly is forged
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
It is 1:1 Zn:Ca. A normal add pack ratio would be 1:2 or 1:3. And I don't think it has any ashless dispersants, antioxidants, etc etc.
Charlie
I was thinking more along the lines of an obsolete spec, motorbike or racing add pack but buying each component separately and mixing it together is def. a possibility
It is 1:1 Zn:Ca. A normal add pack ratio would be 1:2 or 1:3. And I don't think it has any ashless dispersants, antioxidants, etc etc.
Charlie
I was thinking more along the lines of an obsolete spec, motorbike or racing add pack but buying each component separately and mixing it together is def. a possibility
Originally Posted By: Blumurder
So would it be beneficial to run it on say my Stang's 4.6 built short block?
Rotating assembly is forged
Seems like a good add for pushrod engines and other engines with camshaft wear issues and very high spring rates. Not sure if you qualify for that.
So would it be beneficial to run it on say my Stang's 4.6 built short block?
Rotating assembly is forged
Seems like a good add for pushrod engines and other engines with camshaft wear issues and very high spring rates. Not sure if you qualify for that.
Originally Posted By: wjdell
So in your opinion do you believe this Red Line product would enhance break in - or do nothing.
What do you mean by enhance break in? The additives add extra protection for the initial start up process. Is it needed? for the cost of the can it would be foolish not to . G.M. has a break in supplement .
So in your opinion do you believe this Red Line product would enhance break in - or do nothing.
What do you mean by enhance break in? The additives add extra protection for the initial start up process. Is it needed? for the cost of the can it would be foolish not to . G.M. has a break in supplement .
PHOSPHORUS - 19040
ZINC - 13610
CALCIUM - 16950
SILICON - 158
MAGNESIUM - 143
SODIUM - 41
MOLYBDENUM - 12
BORON - 5
POTASSIUM - 3
LEAD - 1
ALUMINUM - 4
IRON - 5
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F - 61.00
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C - 10.49
Flashpoint in °F - 380
Insolubles - 0.1%
ZINC - 13610
CALCIUM - 16950
SILICON - 158
MAGNESIUM - 143
SODIUM - 41
MOLYBDENUM - 12
BORON - 5
POTASSIUM - 3
LEAD - 1
ALUMINUM - 4
IRON - 5
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F - 61.00
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C - 10.49
Flashpoint in °F - 380
Insolubles - 0.1%
I want to buy a bottle and add 4 ounces to each oci
I wish they made something like this with little to no ZDDP in it, but with all of that calcium and magnesium, and even much more soluble (or trimer) moly, and boron in it.
The above would make a great mid to end of OCI TBN/add pack 'booster'!
The above would make a great mid to end of OCI TBN/add pack 'booster'!
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I wish they made something like this with little to no ZDDP in it, but with all of that calcium and magnesium, and even much more soluble (or trimer) moly, and boron in it.
The above would make a great mid to end of OCI TBN/add pack 'booster'!
Liqui-moly makes a product called motor oil saver. Its a di-ester and contains boron. It does exactly as you described and boosts tbn. I'm not sure about whether it contains moly. It's not black like their mos2 additive so I'm sure there isn't any mos2 in it.
Every used oil analysis that I saw with it in the oil had remarkably low wear metals.
I wish they made something like this with little to no ZDDP in it, but with all of that calcium and magnesium, and even much more soluble (or trimer) moly, and boron in it.
The above would make a great mid to end of OCI TBN/add pack 'booster'!
Liqui-moly makes a product called motor oil saver. Its a di-ester and contains boron. It does exactly as you described and boosts tbn. I'm not sure about whether it contains moly. It's not black like their mos2 additive so I'm sure there isn't any mos2 in it.
Every used oil analysis that I saw with it in the oil had remarkably low wear metals.
Originally Posted By: Blumurder
So would it be beneficial to run it on say my Stang's 4.6 built short block?
Rotating assembly is forged
No. Don't bother. Zddp is caustic and unless you compensate by adding something there is potential for pitting.
Use liqui-moly mos2 if you're looking for that bit extra. Its a friction modifier and works very well. I'm using it in my 4v 4.6 that I got from an 04 Mach
So would it be beneficial to run it on say my Stang's 4.6 built short block?
Rotating assembly is forged
No. Don't bother. Zddp is caustic and unless you compensate by adding something there is potential for pitting.
Use liqui-moly mos2 if you're looking for that bit extra. Its a friction modifier and works very well. I'm using it in my 4v 4.6 that I got from an 04 Mach
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I wish they made something like this with little to no ZDDP in it, but with all of that calcium and magnesium, and even much more soluble (or trimer) moly, and boron in it.
The above would make a great mid to end of OCI TBN/add pack 'booster'!
Liqui-moly makes a product called motor oil saver. Its a di-ester and contains boron. It does exactly as you described and boosts tbn. I'm not sure about whether it contains moly. It's not black like their mos2 additive so I'm sure there isn't any mos2 in it.
Every used oil analysis that I saw with it in the oil had remarkably low wear metals.
I would use it, except that it is SOOOOOO durned viscous, and I don't need (at least not right now) the extra esters to help seals.
IF I ever notice severe oil burning/comsumption in this LS1, that stuff is the FIRST thing going into the oil (in the SUMMER time, of course
).
Does the Cer Tec contain as much boron? What about ca, and mg??
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I wish they made something like this with little to no ZDDP in it, but with all of that calcium and magnesium, and even much more soluble (or trimer) moly, and boron in it.
The above would make a great mid to end of OCI TBN/add pack 'booster'!
Liqui-moly makes a product called motor oil saver. Its a di-ester and contains boron. It does exactly as you described and boosts tbn. I'm not sure about whether it contains moly. It's not black like their mos2 additive so I'm sure there isn't any mos2 in it.
Every used oil analysis that I saw with it in the oil had remarkably low wear metals.
I would use it, except that it is SOOOOOO durned viscous, and I don't need (at least not right now) the extra esters to help seals.
IF I ever notice severe oil burning/comsumption in this LS1, that stuff is the FIRST thing going into the oil (in the SUMMER time, of course
Does the Cer Tec contain as much boron? What about ca, and mg??
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