Advice: Just lost 2 engines pre-100k miles

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One other question...given the problems caused by Diesel emissions standards, should we consider gasoline for our small box trucks?

We buy diesel Isuzu cab over box trucks. We have so far only bought used, specifically pre-emissions. But at this point, buying pre-emissions is getting tough. (The trucks are getting old and high mileage.)

So our next one will likely be new or slightly used. So if you had to choose between a 2013 Diesel or Gasoline box truck, what would you pick?
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker


The oil cooler on these types of engines are a coolant style. The oil is kept cool by the engine coolant. On the surface to the uninitiated, is seems like a bad idea, but in fact, that is more efficient than a cooler that is run like, say , a transmission oil cooler.


This is pretty standard practice even for gasoline engines nowadays. The oil-to-coolant thermostatically controlled coolers aide in getting the oil up to temp faster and keep it at a consistent temperature once there.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker


But the fact remains..... the EPA only ties the emissions requirements to the year the engine was made and not the chassis/body.


Which, by the way, is exactly the opposite of passenger cars and light trucks. Emissions configuration is tied to the VIN, which is tied to the chassis. Makes it nice for putting a modern drivetrain in an older vehicle. For example, Mopar Performance sells (or at least used to sell...) crate verions of the modern 5.7 Hemi set up for a carubetor, or for the modern EFI system but without the integrated auto tranny controller so you could use any old-style standalone transmission.
 
Originally Posted By: shredguy
One other question...given the problems caused by Diesel emissions standards, should we consider gasoline for our small box trucks?

We buy diesel Isuzu cab over box trucks. We have so far only bought used, specifically pre-emissions. But at this point, buying pre-emissions is getting tough. (The trucks are getting old and high mileage.)

So our next one will likely be new or slightly used. So if you had to choose between a 2013 Diesel or Gasoline box truck, what would you pick?


I'm an ardent supporter of diesel power, but I'd go with gas (acquisition/maintenance/operation costs). Isuzu's are powered by the 6.0-liter GM engine/6L90 combination -- absolutely outstanding relative the worktrucks of old.
 
Originally Posted By: shredguy
One other question...given the problems caused by Diesel emissions standards, should we consider gasoline for our small box trucks?

We buy diesel Isuzu cab over box trucks. We have so far only bought used, specifically pre-emissions. But at this point, buying pre-emissions is getting tough. (The trucks are getting old and high mileage.)

So our next one will likely be new or slightly used. So if you had to choose between a 2013 Diesel or Gasoline box truck, what would you pick?


Depends.

Are you planning on sticking with outsourced maintenance? Do you purchase fuel in bulk or do you use a cardlock system? Will having some diesels and some gas cause any extra confusion for your operators?

If it was me, I would probably stick with diesel - these new emission systems are here to stay and so everyone needs to start adapting their processes to allow for them - that may mean more intensive maintenance systems, better quality lubricants and planning to include condition monitoring as a part of the maintenance plan. I don't envy fleet managers today who have to make these decisions, but with a small paradigm shift and by planning out your maintenance program taking these systems into account I believe you will come out just fine.
 
Originally Posted By: Solarent
these new emission systems are here to stay and so everyone needs to start adapting their processes to allow for them


...and many are -- by purchasing gas powered models. It's not the long-term predictive failure analysis of emissions equipment so much, but the initial acquisition. Have you looked at the purchase cost differential lately?
 
Not to mention the TWENTY-FIVE percent higher (or more) cost of fuel between diesel & gas! That's why my company switched from diesel back to gas for our van fleet.
 
One option that may be available, offers pretty decent performance characteristics, is easier on the engine oil, and is cheaper, relative to gas or diesel.... CNG.

Depending, there may be incentives to going with that. A lot of companies using smaller commercial vehicles like the Izusu you described, are going to CNG primarily, with some LNG also. If you have followed any of the fleet and truck magazines that cater to commercial operation, CNG and LNG is being offered up and down the commercial truck spectrum and is achieving some respectable numbers in terms of power, efficiency, and economy of operation.

No emissions stuff to worry about, very clean burning, very easy on an engine, and one can extend the oil drains over what gas or diesel offers. That would offer you the ability to run the main engine as you see fit and not have to get an auxiliary engine. I would seriously take a look at NG as an option. There are even heavy semi tractors now that are pulling regular loads using CNG and LNG.
 
Are you sure these trucks can't be built with an auxiliary engine powering the shredders? It really seems like that would fix this problem entirely.
 
Originally Posted By: KenO
Are you sure these trucks can't be built with an auxiliary engine powering the shredders? It really seems like that would fix this problem entirely.


Vecoplan VST-42e, if you have access to three-phase industrial power.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: KenO
Are you sure these trucks can't be built with an auxiliary engine powering the shredders? It really seems like that would fix this problem entirely.


Vecoplan VST-42e, if you have access to three-phase industrial power.
Or could a tow generator be capable of powering it (with cheaper off road fuel & NO DPF!)?
 
"This was all pre-dpf though, so maybe that has something to do with it."

Well not so much dpf but the heavy egr that non def engines used. Go with half the miles or hours thats used on a pre egr engine. Def engines have it much easier and should be considered as " better " despite their auxilary tank/ expense, in agro machines they say that one $ spent on def fluid saves 3 $ of fuel compared to the same engine that uses egr to do the same thing. Heavy egr spoils fuel economy/ engine efficensy.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: KenO
Are you sure these trucks can't be built with an auxiliary engine powering the shredders? It really seems like that would fix this problem entirely.


Vecoplan VST-42e, if you have access to three-phase industrial power.


Not really applicable, since 99% of the time there is no access to three-phase power. I guess towing a generator would be an option, but doesn't seem too feasible and presents it's own set of problems.
 
Originally Posted By: shredguy
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: KenO
Are you sure these trucks can't be built with an auxiliary engine powering the shredders? It really seems like that would fix this problem entirely.


Vecoplan VST-42e, if you have access to three-phase industrial power.


Not really applicable, since 99% of the time there is no access to three-phase power. I guess towing a generator would be an option, but doesn't seem too feasible and presents it's own set of problems.



No, who said anything about electrical power. I'm talking about a dedicated engine built into the shredder unit. I can't fathom how thats not possible, or why it hasn't been done. I'd strongly suggest speaking with your suppliers about it, because it really seems like it would save everybody time and money.


I mean, if it came to it, a dedicated genset COULD be worthwhile as well. Research the fuel consumption on them and see if the finances make sense on that end, but somehow I doubt that. An integrated, self contained shredder unit just like they've done for decades with refrigeration units makes the most sense.
 
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I would definitely do oil analysts on all these units and adjust the interval accordingly.

and stick with any of the big three oil's,what type of filtration you using? standard filter,by-pass?
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
At what RPM do you run your PTO operations? At least in the agricultural sector, it's significantly higher than idle. I think with the Case equipment I last used, it was around 1900 rpm or so, but my memory could be in error.


This is my question as well. At what RPM is the PTO set? What RPM load does it take to properly run your shredders?
I have a C-7 that requires the PTO to be set at 1000 rpm's for the pumps and compressor to properly operate.
 
Originally Posted By: shredguy
After reading everything, I think we are going to focus more on the cooling aspects.

We have been getting oil changes every 3 months, which works out to about 400-500 hours...which is about right. We are going to do analysis on the oil starting with the next oil changes to see if we need to adjust the schedule.

However, we were doing the cooling, tranny, and DPF PMs on mostly a miles basis. We are going to switch that to hourly based, which will roughly mean double the servicing.

Any other ideas you think we should try?



Checking the math here....400 hours, if traveled at 60 mph, equals 24000 miles. Granted, idling is lower rpm and wear perhaps is less. But any way you look at it, 24000 miles equivalent is a very long OCI. When you get your UOA on the oil at that range, I am pretty sure it will be depleted.
 
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Can't speak to his particular operation, but 400 hrs, 24,000 miles for a modern commercial heavy diesel is not that long. Cummins recommends over 25,000, and Detroit is the winner in longevity by recommending 50,000 mile OCI's on their newer stuff. It has been rare for me, since the mid 90's to change a heavy diesel less than 25,000 miles, unless monitoring a problem, even using conventional oil and no bypass filtration.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Can't speak to his particular operation, but 400 hrs, 24,000 miles for a modern commercial heavy diesel is not that long. Cummins recommends over 25,000, and Detroit is the winner in longevity by recommending 50,000 mile OCI's on their newer stuff. It has been rare for me, since the mid 90's to change a heavy diesel less than 25,000 miles, unless monitoring a problem, even using conventional oil and no bypass filtration.


I stand corrected; thanks for the education on diesel oil longevity!
 
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