Good oil for lightly driven '09 Passat?

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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just to clarify, I was talking about the non-ESP Formula M which is only available from the dealers here in the US. The ESP Formula M on the other hand is available at retail level: PepBoys, Amazon, etc.

So, this is another case of us getting weird packaging up here, like M1 0w-40 only in 1 L bottles?
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Castrol Edge 5W30 first is not Low SAPS oil,

I think CATERHAM was referring to the TEOST high temp deposit test, not low SAPS classification.


Ah OK, well regardless. 5W30 Edge on my scale goes along with Olive Oil in Wal Mart!


Castrol Edge 5w30 is low saps in the UK, it is not the lowest, but is C3.


That is completely different oil then Castrol 5W30 Edge in the U.S.
Same goes for food etc. In the U.S. you can sell GMO etc, in the EU you cannot.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Word of caution though: these engines don't like to be driven lightly. Get ready for some valve cleaning down the road.

I don't think the fear mongering is necessary. Most North Americans drive there cars lightly, even sports cars.
Better advise would be that it's a good practice even with cars that are driven lightly to still be rev'd close to red line in a lower gear on occasion once up to temperature.

If intake valve deposits are an issue with this engine I'd suggest using an oil with a very low deposit rating such as Castrol Edge 5W-30.
In a spec 502.00 oil, I wouldn't use anything heavier than M1 0W-40 which means no other 40 grade oil.


Castrol Edge 5W30 first is not Low SAPS oil, second, it is too thin for any European car.


Kinda bold absolute statement, isn't it? Considering VW spec 503.01/506.01 is 0w30.

Also, 504.00/507.00 is 5w30.

Yes, you can buy Castrol Professional Longlife III in the US either at dealerships or online VW parts places (specifically TDI's).
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Word of caution though: these engines don't like to be driven lightly. Get ready for some valve cleaning down the road.

I don't think the fear mongering is necessary. Most North Americans drive there cars lightly, even sports cars.
Better advise would be that it's a good practice even with cars that are driven lightly to still be rev'd close to red line in a lower gear on occasion once up to temperature.

If intake valve deposits are an issue with this engine I'd suggest using an oil with a very low deposit rating such as Castrol Edge 5W-30.
In a spec 502.00 oil, I wouldn't use anything heavier than M1 0W-40 which means no other 40 grade oil.


Castrol Edge 5W30 first is not Low SAPS oil, second, it is too thin for any European car.


Kinda bold absolute statement, isn't it? Considering VW spec 503.01/506.01 is 0w30.

Also, 504.00/507.00 is 5w30.

Yes, you can buy Castrol Professional Longlife III in the US either at dealerships or online VW parts places (specifically TDI's).



Look at HTHS and cst that Castrol 5W30 Edge has and for example GC!
GC as any Euro spec 0W30 or 5W30 are thick 30 oils, with cst of minimum 11.5 and HTHS minimum 3.5.
VW 502.00/506.01/503.01/504.00/507.00 etc, only thing common they have with American castrol 5W30 are number and similar bottle
smile.gif
 
Elf Evolution CRV is a 506.00/506.01/503.00 oil, which is 0w30.

the cst@100°C is 9.6 mm2/s, below the minimum of your hard limit for Euro engines of 11.5 cP

the HTHS is not 3.5 minimum. It is 2.9 to 3.5

Castrol Edge 5w30 FST is 9.8 mm2/s & meets the A5/B5 HTHS (assume it's 2.9 cP)
Castrol Edge 5w30 SPT is 10.6 mm2/s & 2.9 cP

A VW-specifcation oil is very similar to the Castrol Edges we get (there may be othere differences like TBN, etc).

So.. your absolute statement about is still factually incorrect.

Good thing we're only talking volkswagen. ACEA A5/B5 doesn't meet your absolute viscosity and HTHS requirements for European engines.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Elf Evolution CRV is a 506.00/506.01/503.00 oil, which is 0w30.

the cst@100°C is 9.6 mm2/s, below the minimum of your hard limit for Euro engines of 11.5 cP

the HTHS is not 3.5 minimum. It is 2.9 to 3.5

Castrol Edge 5w30 FST is 9.8 mm2/s & meets the A5/B5 HTHS (assume it's 2.9 cP)
Castrol Edge 5w30 SPT is 10.6 mm2/s & 2.9 cP

A VW-specifcation oil is very similar to the Castrol Edges we get (there may be othere differences like TBN, etc).

So.. your absolute statement about is still factually incorrect.

Good thing we're only talking volkswagen. ACEA A5/B5 doesn't meet your absolute viscosity and HTHS requirements for European engines.


I was talking about about A3/A4 B3/A4.
Also, A5 are rarely used in Euro engines, except Volvo, certain Ford's and very few Opel's.
VW 504.00/507.00, VW 503.01, VW 502.00 are all minimum HTHS 3.5!
Please find any A3/A4 or B3/B4 below HTHS of 3.5?
I am from Europe, drove all kind of cars there, all required 5W40, or A3/B3 A4/B4.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Elf Evolution CRV is a 506.00/506.01/503.00 oil, which is 0w30.

the cst@100°C is 9.6 mm2/s, below the minimum of your hard limit for Euro engines of 11.5 cP

the HTHS is not 3.5 minimum. It is 2.9 to 3.5

Castrol Edge 5w30 FST is 9.8 mm2/s & meets the A5/B5 HTHS (assume it's 2.9 cP)
Castrol Edge 5w30 SPT is 10.6 mm2/s & 2.9 cP

A VW-specifcation oil is very similar to the Castrol Edges we get (there may be othere differences like TBN, etc).

So.. your absolute statement about is still factually incorrect.

Good thing we're only talking volkswagen. ACEA A5/B5 doesn't meet your absolute viscosity and HTHS requirements for European engines.


I was talking about about A3/A4 B3/A4.
Also, A5 are rarely used in Euro engines, except Volvo, certain Ford's and very few Opel's.
VW 504.00/507.00, VW 503.01, VW 502.00 are all minimum HTHS 3.5!
Please find any A3/A4 or B3/B4 below HTHS of 3.5?
I am from Europe, drove all kind of cars there, all required 5W40, or A3/B3 A4/B4.


You msy be from Europe, drove all kinds of cars there.... but you don't know what you're talking about.

First there is no ACEA A4 specification.

You do have A3, B3, & B4, which the A3/B3 and A3/B4. You can't find any A3/B3 or A3/B4 with a HTHS below 3.5 because it won't meet the ACEA specification, as the specification for them is 3.5 min.

You also seem to conveniently ignore other VW Specifications that do not require a HTHS of 3.5 min, 503.00, 506.00 and 506.01 to make your case.

So, all of your absolute statements are factually wrong.
 
Yeah I just saw I put A4.
Anyway, VW503.00, 506.00, 506.01, are long drain for PD engines.
Interestingly enough, same engines require VW 505.01! VW 506.00 and VW503.00 were used in ONLY best conditions possible. Any harder conditions required VW 505.01 (more sulfur in diesel fuel, dusty roads etc).
I know because I still own car in Europe with PD diesel engine. Those oils were used to improve gas mileage, but ONLY under certain conditions, which tells a lot. Still, I have not seen anyone using that oil in PD engines!
I would say you need more info on this matter!
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Elf Evolution CRV is a 506.00/506.01/503.00 oil, which is 0w30.

the cst@100°C is 9.6 mm2/s, below the minimum of your hard limit for Euro engines of 11.5 cP

the HTHS is not 3.5 minimum. It is 2.9 to 3.5

Castrol Edge 5w30 FST is 9.8 mm2/s & meets the A5/B5 HTHS (assume it's 2.9 cP)
Castrol Edge 5w30 SPT is 10.6 mm2/s & 2.9 cP

A VW-specifcation oil is very similar to the Castrol Edges we get (there may be othere differences like TBN, etc).

So.. your absolute statement about is still factually incorrect.

Good thing we're only talking volkswagen. ACEA A5/B5 doesn't meet your absolute viscosity and HTHS requirements for European engines.


I was talking about about A3/A4 B3/A4.
Also, A5 are rarely used in Euro engines, except Volvo, certain Ford's and very few Opel's.
VW 504.00/507.00, VW 503.01, VW 502.00 are all minimum HTHS 3.5!
Please find any A3/A4 or B3/B4 below HTHS of 3.5?
I am from Europe, drove all kind of cars there, all required 5W40, or A3/B3 A4/B4.


By A5 I assume you mean A5/B5 as I have never seen an oil just meet the petrol standard

But the only Fords that don't run A5/B5 are the Ford KA and the Focus RS

It is a very common oil in the UK

It used to be marked up by Castrol as Zetec oil

My Jaguar runs on A5/B5 when there is no Dpf fitted and runs C1 when it is

So I think your statement is a little bit innacurate.

I would suggest you have been in the US for a while now and possibly drove VAG group cars when in Europe

Or you may have originally came from an Eastern European country as they have different fuels, different usage and therefore very likely different oil specs

As far as I am aware most current Volvos also use A5/B5


Ford use 5w30 except in the two cases I mentioned previously and Volvo also use mostly 5w30 and 0w30

In fact Castrol Magnatec 5w30 A5/B5 is marked up as Ford specific, may also say Volvo on there aswell to be honest but been a while since I bought it.

Jaguars 5.0 lump is specced for 5w20 since it was introduced, also A5/B5 I think with a similar oil spec being used for the new 1.0 turbo Ecoboost engine in the Fiesta and Focus

Renault used to spec 5w40, 0w40 or 10w40 widely but since the spread of DPF's in the model range they now tend to spec 5w30

I suspect one of the few companies to be sticking with -w40 may well be VAG, would need to check to be honest.
 
I already said that Volvo uses A5/B5 (same as in Eastern Europe), some Ford's, very few Opel's (which interestingly in Europe in 2.0T uses 5W40 A3, while in the U.S. uses A5, probably because of application).
Those VW specs that UG_Passat is mentioning are used in very, very good conditions. However, I did not see them using in PD engines even in Germany, because of well know reason.
What you said that few companies are sticking to W40, my point was not in SAE grades, but in HTHS and cst.
Most of European companies require ACEA A3/B3 with HTHS of minimum 3.5cst. Those could be heavy W30 oils or pretty much any W40.
 
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Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yeah I just saw I put A4.
Anyway, VW503.00, 506.00, 506.01, are long drain for PD engines.
Interestingly enough, same engines require VW 505.01! VW 506.00 and VW503.00 were used in ONLY best conditions possible. Any harder conditions required VW 505.01 (more sulfur in diesel fuel, dusty roads etc).
I know because I still own car in Europe with PD diesel engine. Those oils were used to improve gas mileage, but ONLY under certain conditions, which tells a lot. Still, I have not seen anyone using that oil in PD engines!
I would say you need more info on this matter!


Why would you want to use a low HTHS oil in a pd engine?

If you don't use a specific PD oil it will eat the cam.

I think you may need to look into why low HTHS oils were introduced, sulphur level in fuel wasn't a big issue when the Zetec engine came out in the mk1 Mondeo back in '92 and using the wrong oil caused valves to get sticky and caused misfires.

Not sure of the relevance of still owning a car in Europe though.

Europe is a big place with difference fuel specifications

I certainly wouldn't use the same oil and OCI if I lived and drove in say Spain or Portugal as I do in the UK
 
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yeah I just saw I put A4.
Anyway, VW503.00, 506.00, 506.01, are long drain for PD engines.
Interestingly enough, same engines require VW 505.01! VW 506.00 and VW503.00 were used in ONLY best conditions possible. Any harder conditions required VW 505.01 (more sulfur in diesel fuel, dusty roads etc).
I know because I still own car in Europe with PD diesel engine. Those oils were used to improve gas mileage, but ONLY under certain conditions, which tells a lot. Still, I have not seen anyone using that oil in PD engines!
I would say you need more info on this matter!


Why would you want to use a low HTHS oil in a pd engine?

If you don't use a specific PD oil it will eat the cam.

I think you may need to look into why low HTHS oils were introduced, sulphur level in fuel wasn't a big issue when the Zetec engine came out in the mk1 Mondeo back in '92 and using the wrong oil caused valves to get sticky and caused misfires.

Not sure of the relevance of still owning a car in Europe though.

Europe is a big place with difference fuel specifications

I certainly wouldn't use the same oil and OCI if I lived and drove in say Spain or Portugal as I do in the UK



No, you misunderstood me. VW503.00 was used in first VW PD engines (1.9 101ps, 115ps) as long drain. later VW 506.00 and .01 were used in some engines, but in very few applications, and VW went back to HTHS 3.5 and above on all engines.
I said I own this engine still just to say I do have experience with this application.
However, I yet to see someone to use in PD engine oil that has HTHS less then 3.5cst.
My opinion is that VW played a little bit with these energy saving oils, and just abandoned it.
 
Originally Posted By: bigjl
By A5 I assume you mean A5/B5 as I have never seen an oil just meet the petrol standard

You may read that quirk from some of us in North America. Some synthetic oils here claim the A5 and ignore the B5, for whatever reason, in print on their sheets or the bottles. They're generally ILSAC rated oils anyhow, and see the insides of few if any diesels.
wink.gif
Oddly enough, one of the Korean manufacturers has been listing A5 in their manuals, without the B5. I don't know if such wording is seen anywhere in Europe.
 
I have seen mention of just one standard in the owners manual of my TX4 Taxi in that case it mentioned B4, B5 I seem to remember

It might be simply because diesels are still relatively uncommon in the US?

I have read about people using diesel spec oil in a petrol engine as they are considered more robust

I always thought the oil companies saw this and made oils that matched both specs as it was cheaper
 
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yeah I just saw I put A4.
Anyway, VW503.00, 506.00, 506.01, are long drain for PD engines.
Interestingly enough, same engines require VW 505.01! VW 506.00 and VW503.00 were used in ONLY best conditions possible. Any harder conditions required VW 505.01 (more sulfur in diesel fuel, dusty roads etc).
I know because I still own car in Europe with PD diesel engine. Those oils were used to improve gas mileage, but ONLY under certain conditions, which tells a lot. Still, I have not seen anyone using that oil in PD engines!
I would say you need more info on this matter!


Why would you want to use a low HTHS oil in a pd engine?

If you don't use a specific PD oil it will eat the cam.



If you do use a PD specific oil, it will still eat the cam.

many of the PD owners here use a Heavy Duty Diesel Oil instead.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yeah I just saw I put A4.
Anyway, VW503.00, 506.00, 506.01, are long drain for PD engines.
Interestingly enough, same engines require VW 505.01! VW 506.00 and VW503.00 were used in ONLY best conditions possible. Any harder conditions required VW 505.01 (more sulfur in diesel fuel, dusty roads etc).
I know because I still own car in Europe with PD diesel engine. Those oils were used to improve gas mileage, but ONLY under certain conditions, which tells a lot. Still, I have not seen anyone using that oil in PD engines!
I would say you need more info on this matter!


Why would you want to use a low HTHS oil in a pd engine?

If you don't use a specific PD oil it will eat the cam.



If you do use a PD specific oil, it will still eat the cam.

many of the PD owners here use a Heavy Duty Diesel Oil instead.


I had several PD cars, always used Shell Helix, OMV or Castrol 505.01 5W40. Two of those engines hit 230,000 miles before they were sold. Current one is hitting 90,000, no issues also.
My cousin had Passat 1.9 130ps (which I think is best PD engine ever made) and sold it with 260,000 miles. Never single issue on engine.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I already said that Volvo uses A5/B5 (same as in Eastern Europe), some Ford's, very few Opel's (which interestingly in Europe in 2.0T uses 5W40 A3, while in the U.S. uses A5, probably because of application).
Those VW specs that UG_Passat is mentioning are used in very, very good conditions. However, I did not see them using in PD engines even in Germany, because of well know reason.
What you said that few companies are sticking to W40, my point was not in SAE grades, but in HTHS and cst.
Most of European companies require ACEA A3/B3 with HTHS of minimum 3.5cst. Those could be heavy W30 oils or pretty much any W40.


You seemed to have missed my point.

All Fords use A5/B5 except the Ford Ka and Focus RS

That isn't some. Same for Volvo. Though since the involvement of Ford and platfrom sharing it may be all Volvos apart from maybe the original D5 engine. The new 2.0 is now 5 cylinder confusingly.
 
Originally Posted By: bigjl
It might be simply because diesels are still relatively uncommon in the US?

Yes, at least ones calling for a B spec or something derived from that. Aside from VW/Audi and Mercedes diesels, most call for CJ-4 or previous. That's usually combined with a spec like SM, too, for mixed fleet use. But, you just don't see the general trend of interchangeable use between gassers and diesels like you'd see with European specifications.

For example, GC and M1 0w-40 are first choices that meet the exact specifications of several European gassers and diesels. With North America, the difficulty arrives in that if it's a diesel, it'll call for a heavy CJ-4 HDEO (10w-30 or heavier with HTHS of 3.5 or more) versus the gasoline vehicle calling for an ILSAC rated oil, which is basically a spark only lubricant. Finding a newer gas vehicle here calling for a CJ-4/SM 5w-40 would be just about impossible.
 
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I already said that Volvo uses A5/B5 (same as in Eastern Europe), some Ford's, very few Opel's (which interestingly in Europe in 2.0T uses 5W40 A3, while in the U.S. uses A5, probably because of application).
Those VW specs that UG_Passat is mentioning are used in very, very good conditions. However, I did not see them using in PD engines even in Germany, because of well know reason.
What you said that few companies are sticking to W40, my point was not in SAE grades, but in HTHS and cst.
Most of European companies require ACEA A3/B3 with HTHS of minimum 3.5cst. Those could be heavy W30 oils or pretty much any W40.


You seemed to have missed my point.

All Fords use A5/B5 except the Ford Ka and Focus RS

That isn't some. Same for Volvo. Though since the involvement of Ford and platfrom sharing it may be all Volvos apart from maybe the original D5 engine. The new 2.0 is now 5 cylinder confusingly.


No I believe you. Since Volvo started to cooperate with Ford, I gave up on them, and stop following what they doing. 960's and 850's are last Volvo's I consider as true Volvo.
I also never been big fan of Ford, although I do have in household in Europe Jaguar S-Type 3.0 V6.
 
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