Nokian Hakka R2 winter tires

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: jetdzl06
Hello all,

Where does everyone buy their Nokian Hakka R2s? I'm in Delaware and there's no dealer within 200 miles………..


I used tiresbyweb.com. So far I am liking how they treat their customers. They have been very responsive in dealing with my R2 warranty replacement. Unlike some businesses I have dealt with on the phone, when they say they will call you back, they actually call you back.

 

[SubLGT]

Here's another Subaru driver who seems to have a vibration issue with his new R2s:

"……………..considering the not-so-stellar reviews of the Michelins for slushy/soft snow conditions I went for the R2's. I got them from Kal Tire, who are the exclusive Canadian distributors for Nokians, at a relatively reasonable price (for Canada). Lifetime balancing and rotation, and I will definitely make use of the balancing as it seems that either I'm too picky or they can't seem to make the wheels and tires be as smooth as possible. Or I've got extremely bad luck as this issue has happened to me before on my old VW GTI……………"

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/...458/index2.html

 

[krzyss]

It starts to look like a pattern instead of random events.
Is Russian Nokian factory a brand new one?

Krzys

 

[SubLGT]

Their first Russian plant opened in 2005. They just built a new plant next to the old one, and tire production there began around June 2013. My set of R2s were built around August 2013, so they could have come from the new plant.

I am not going to call this an epidemic of bad Nokian tires, because after all I have seen only 3 other reports online of vibration issues with the R2. And thousands of them must be on the road by this time. I have also read similar reports about some of Michelin's top dollar tires being replaced under warranty because of poor concentricity and uniformity. I had one new Blizzak LM25 tire replaced for the same reason, and even after that I could never get a 100% vibration free balance on that set of Blizzaks. I am no stranger to tire issues, as I have had tire vibration issues off and on with various vehicles since 1975!

 

[SubLGT]

Another Subaru with Nokian R2s with vibration issues:

"………...this is my third set of Nokians,………..little noisier on the highway, awesome on snow and ice. this set has a problem, they vibrate / shimmy a bit... had them rebalanced and then road tested with the Kal Tire guy in Lethbridge... the vibration is annoying but he says it must be the tire, NOT the balancing after the road test.

anyone else have this issue? 2013 Outback with Nokian hakkapeliitta r2 225/60/r17
any chance the hub centric rings are installed wrong, or is that even possible.

I never had any vibration issues with …………... the stock tires………."

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/90-tire-discussion/88234-nokian-good-4.html

To be fair, I have also seen a lot of user reports online where no balance problems were reported.

 

[BHopkins]

A Finnish car magazine, "Tekniikan maailma" (Translates to Technology World) recently released their 2013 winter tire testing results. They tested both studdless and studded tires. The winners in the studless category:
1st - Michelin Xi3, with a score of 7.6
2nd - Nokian Hakkapeliitta R 2, with a score of 7.5
3rd - Bridgestone Blizzak WS70, with a score of 7.2

In my engineering mind, I would consider the Michelin and the Nokian a statistical tie.

Here is the link if one is interested. http://www.rengasvertailu.fi/talvirengastestit/tekniikan-maailma-talvirengastesti-2013

If you use Google Chrome, it is easy to translate to English.

Here are some main results for three best studless:

Ice braking distance: WS70 55.6 m, R2 56.4 m and Xi3 61.0 m (Hakka 8 studded 40.7 m, ouch)
Ice handling points (0-10): R2 8p, Xi3 8p and WS70 7p
And ice handling course: Xi3: 69.6s, R2: 71.6s, and WS70: 74.2s

Snow braking: Xi3 54.3 m, R2 54.5 m and WS70 54.8 m
Snow handling: Xi3 10p, R2 10p and WS70 9p

Wet asphalt braking: Xi3 34.9 m, R2 35.2 m and WS70 35.5 m
Wet asphalt handling: Xi3 8p, R2 6p and WS70 6p

Dry asphalt braking: WS70 26.8 m, Xi3 28.2 m and R2 28.7 m
Dry asphalt handling: Xi3 8p, WS70 7p and R2 6p

Directional stability points (0-10): Xi3 9p, R2 7p and WS70 7p

 

[Rolla07]

Im pretty sure I heard that the nordman 4's were made in Nokian's lower labor costing center in Russia...so the reason its in Russia is to cut costs..personally id try and get a set made in finland instead...

 

[AboutTires]

On the other hand I've been to the factory in Finland, and it's fitted with much older technology than the factory in Russia. The reason the Russian factory involves less labor costs is that so much of the production line is fully automated in the new factory.

http://tires.about.com/b/2013/03/12/nokian-tyres-day-1-the-factory.htm

 

[Nebroch]

Local traffic agency released a web page to list winter tyre ice traction potential:

http://safewintertyre.eu/en

Familiar models on the top, WS70, R2 and old R, XI3...

 

[BHopkins]

Originally Posted By: Nebroch
Local traffic agency released a web page to list winter tyre ice traction potential:

http://safewintertyre.eu/en

Familiar models on the top, WS70, R2 and old R, XI3...


Why are they rating tires by only one factor - braking? Are they implying that the only necessary emergency response is braking?

 

[SubLGT]

Thanks for that link, Nebroch.

Good to see that they posted details about the ice braking test protocol:

Braking on ice involves comparing the test tyre against a standard reference testing tyre (SRTT). The test results are reported as an index, which is then compared against the SRTT’s index of 100. The higher the tyre’s index the better. A difference of 2–3 index points is regarded as significant.

METHOD

ABS braking 20-5 km/h
Reference tyre: Standard Reference Tyre 16"
Load: 60%-90% of tyre load index
Tyre pressure: 2.4 bar
Driving order: Ref-T1-T2-Ref or Ref-T-Ref

CONDITIONS

Ambient temperature at: -7 C at 1m height, tolerance +- 2C)
Ice temperature: -7 C, tolerance +- 2C)
Smooth ice
Surface cleaned from any snow dust

CALCULATION CRITERIA AND RESULTS

Max change for reference tyre: 5%
Max CV (stdev/mean): 6%
8 brakings/tyre
Final result average of two tests compared to reference tyre

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: BHopkins
Why are they rating tires by only one factor - braking? Are they implying that the only necessary emergency response is braking?


I am guessing that is because additional tests cost more money

 

[Rand]

where all the tires tested on a fresh patch of ice? at the same time? otherwise there could be major flaws in their methodology

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: Rand
where all the tires tested on a fresh patch of ice? at the same time? otherwise there could be major flaws in their methodology


The testing was done in Finland, by Test World, a professional and respected tire testing organization. They are not going to make the "amateur hour" mistakes you are worried about.

http://www.testworld.fi

 

[Rand]

I dont see where it says they used fresh ice or not.

in the real world you may get results that vary.

slightly roughed up ice over "hockey rink"
both perhaps? are you the first one into work at 4am or did 10 guys with studded snows just go into work 10mins ahead of you?

which are you going to be driving on in the real world.

I agree the testing is through and objective. I am just saying it doesn't always correlate to real world 1:1

And My point wasn't inferring they make mistakes.. its more like in the real world there are many variables. You cant have many variables and repeatability for 125 tires.

The results are a great tool to get an idea of how good the tires are but just that.. a tool.

When I think of this test. I'm thinking...

Is there a set of conditions that would make the hakka R2 come in better or worse than 11th?

Is there a set of conditions that would make the hakka 8 fall out of first place?

is there a set of conditions that would make the blizzack ws-70 better or worse ?

the answer should be yes.

I just wish more of their results and reviews were available in english, not via google translate.

How much would it cost them to put together the charts and results in multi-languages?

 

[Nebroch]

Originally Posted By: Rand

When I think of this test. I'm thinking...

Is there a set of conditions that would make the hakka R2 come in better or worse than 11th?

Is there a set of conditions that would make the hakka 8 fall out of first place?

is there a set of conditions that would make the blizzack ws-70 better or worse ?

the answer should be yes.


Sure there is, but I don't think it matters too much. Just select a product which coherently stays in top3 or top5 in test results, and you're good.

 

[Rand]

I'd have to agree. except top 5 is more like top 40 on that list, as far as whats available on that list in the USA.
meaning: the vast majority is not available

hakka 8's should be around in about a year. Probably be my next tires in a few years time.

 

[dailydriver]

Are the 8s studless, like the R2s, or ONLY available studded??

 

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Are the 8s studless, like the R2s, or ONLY available studded??


Studded only, it appears. They're probably less of an ice-oriented compound than the R2s, so they're meant to be used with studs.

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: Rand
……..I just wish more of their results and reviews were available in english, not via google translate.

How much would it cost them to put together the charts and results in multi-languages?


?? The ice testing web page is viewable in four languages, one being English