antifreeze alternative for engines

[sdowney717]

I was wondering about those blue bottles of washer fluid that go down to 0* F containing methanol. We never get cold wnough to need even that low protection.

Or RainX.

I have read that the pink RV antifreeze when it gets hot is destroyed and turns brown.

There is a company that sells an expensive lifetime antifreeze which must not be mixed with water. That also allows for higher engine operating temp with a higher temp thermostat which you can not buy could increase your mpg.

I think the blue washer fluid would work, didn't years ago some antifreezes used alcohols? Rust might be an issue so then put in an anti rust water pump lubricant.

I have before run plain water with the antirust additive,

 

[sdowney717]

Good to minus 20* F

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accesso...ier=690800_0_0_

A methanol-water mixture. Would running such a thing in the heat of the system cause the methanol to escape? It is a closed system.

 

[sdowney717]

Quote:
Early engine coolant antifreeze was methanol (methyl alcohol), still used in windshield washer fluid. As radiator caps were vented, not sealed, the methanol was lost to evaporation, requiring frequent replenishment to avoid freezing of the coolant. Methanol also accelerates corrosion of the metals, especially aluminium, used in the engine and cooling systems. Ethylene glycol was developed, and soon replaced methanol as an engine cooling system antifreeze. It has a very low volatility compared to methanol and to water.


So will the anti rust water pump additive prevent methanol corrosion of aluminum radiators?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze

Antirust additive
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accesso...ier=248595_0_0_

 

[Smoky14]

Pretty much a bad idea.

 

[fdcg27]

One function of the coolant is to prevent corrosion and to lubricate the water pump bushing.
Another function of coolant is to resist freezing.
The sole function of either RV anti-freeze or windshield washer fluid is to reist freezing.
IOW, neither should be used in the cooling system.

 

[Charlie1935]

Alcohol anti-freeze was popular when I was a kid. It has a lower boiling point than plain water. After a warm day in the winter one would have to replenish the alcohol that had boiled away.
Of course we didn't have the closed cooling systems on cars then.
I remember Dad running a low temp. thermostat then. Seems like 150 degree I think.

 

[Chris142]

Every owners manual I have around says not to use alcohol for antifreeze.

 

[Corvette Owner]

WHY? With aluminum and steel used you need specific additives, just use the coolant specified and change it. Now you can reduce percentage dilution for your lowest temperature ( I would add 10 degrees lower).

 

[NateDN10]

Very bad idea. Engine coolant has more properties than just resisting freezing. A very important one is that it also raises the boiling point. Alcohol lowers the boiling point! There's also corrosion inhibitors and other things.

I think the "expensive lifetime antifreeze" you're talking about is Evans Waterless Coolant.

 

[sdowney717]

Yes, it is the Evans coolant which I find interesting.
What is it, propylene glycol somehow heat stabilized?

If you could get a higher temp thermostat, then your MPG would rise, but how much improvement for a reasonable payback time. I also run my old green coolant for 5 years or until something happens which forces me to change it out.

 

[eljefino]

I've read claims that on some cars with, say, 185'F thermostats the cars start retarding timing at 190'F, so you'd need a custom tune to get the thermal efficiency you think you'd be getting. Not to mention your NOx emissions would be through the roof.

Find an old popular mechanics from 1930's, they have ads for prestone ethylene glycol (eg modern antifreeze) and they give a number of reasons why it's the bee's knees in comparison to alcohol or other junk they used to put in (some sort of sugar mix IIRC)

 

[SHOZ]

No such thing as a closed system. They all will vent after 15-18 lbs and when they do it will be alcohol vapor that is driven off way before water.

What's wrong with the old 50/50 green and distilled water?

 

[sdowney717]

I found out sugar works as antifreeze.
Sugar also raises the boiling point.

Took a couple teaspoons of sugar and a cup of water and it stays like a liquid slush in my freezer. Freezer goes down to -5*F. What I read is the dissolved substance lowers water freeze point, Antifreeze forms a slush when cold enough which concentrates the mixture lowering it some more.
Sugar under heat turns to invert sugar which is glucose and fructose. But it will not burn. The heat will also not allow any bacteria to grow.

So there are alternatives say if antifreeze price point becomes unbearable.
yeah you will say how wonderful ethylene glycol is for the profits of the company which makes it and the engine. Companies know they can convince (educate) people to stop using the easy cheap stuff and switch them to your expensive better product.

From 1910 to about 1925, a variety of different compounds were tried as coolants, some of which were common kitchen ingredients such as sugar, honey and molasses. The modern age of year-round/all-season antifreeze/coolant dawned in 1927, when Prestone introduced a new cooling-system liquid consisting of ethylene glycol.
http://www.truckinginfo.com/channel/afte...y-coolants.aspx

 

[SHOZ]

What about lubrication or cleaning abilities of normal antifreeze vs water and sugar?

 

[sdowney717]

yeah I dont know. sugar is not forming an ionic solution like salt does.
Rust is dissolved using concentrated molasses. So if you mean by dirty as in rust, then add what they call that antirust-water pump lubricant in a bottle.

A water pump seal does not need any lubrication except water. My boats salt raw water pumps all use the same type of seal.
Sugar also lowers water surface tension, so it should improve cooling vs plain water.

Ethylene glycol is a sugar alcohol. Antifreeze has antirust additives which get depleted. That is what wears out.
My thought is if you live in an area which does not see extremely low temps a sugar water mix will work ok just by itself.

 

[sdowney717]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_alcohol

The simplest sugar alcohols, ethylene glycol and methanol, are sweet but notoriously toxic chemicals used in antifreeze. The more complex sugar alcohols are for the most part nontoxic.

So your all been using sugar and alcohol as antifreeze all along without thinking much about it.

 

[y_p_w]

Just water with corrosion inhibitors and lubricants can work. Apparently this is very popular with racers, who might add something like Red Line Water Wetter. Water has a higher specific heat and cools better. If freezing is never an issue, this is fine. Not only that, but water has a lower viscosity.

I remember seeing a Subaru TSB advising that their undiluted OEM coolant could be cut down to as low as 37% with water and still provide the specified OEM service life. At that concentration it will still provide adequate freeze protection for places that don't go subzero F.

 

[SHOZ]

The water and water wetter does not have as high a boiling point as 50/50 antifreeze though does it?

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
The water and water wetter does not have as high a boiling point as 50/50 antifreeze though does it?

But it cools better. I suppose the idea is that if you can transport the heat away and move the mixture through fast enough, localized boiling doesn't really become an issue.

 

[SHOZ]

I tried it once on Taurus and had issues. But I could not control the fans at the time and was stuck on the stock radiator.