Liqui Moly?

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: kjbock
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: kjbock
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Just use the M1 0w-40 and an OEM filter.


After thinking about it, you are right.

In NC, I would go with GC 0W30.
I lived in AL and CA, used that oil, never had issues, no burning etc. My wife is still in Ca for some time, and only GC goes in her Tiguan.
Although paper says that M1 should be better in winter, I think that 2.0T has much smoother cold start with GC (I tried it).
Only reason why I switched to M1 is the fact that I live now on much higher altitude where flash point goes down, and M1 has higher flesh point.
That being said, I think next oil change I am moving to either Amsoil or Redline.


The only problem with GC is that it costs about twice as much as M1. I think it is a good oil, but not twice as good as M1. Though I will end up trying both before deciding on one of the two, since I think they are probably two of the best oils for my BMW. I need to find a good special on the GC though before pulling the trigger.


When it comes to oil I personnaly never think of difference in price.
Yeah, M1 is cheap, I just put it in for $24 fo 5qt. However, when I see price that low I always think there is a reason for that.
I personnaly put M1 bcs i did not found any store here that carries some other PAO or Ester oil with higher flash point then GC, so I got M1 that ahs pretty decent flash point (althought it is GIII+).
I did find that now, so M1 is out probably once I hit 3K, and then put Redline 5W30 that I can buy in local store. It is $12 per quart, but my CC is also pretty expensive, so....

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

When it comes to oil I personnaly never think of difference in price.
Yeah, M1 is cheap, I just put it in for $24 fo 5qt. However, when I see price that low I always think there is a reason for that.
I personnaly put M1 bcs i did not found any store here that carries some other PAO or Ester oil with higher flash point then GC, so I got M1 that ahs pretty decent flash point (althought it is GIII+).
I did find that now, so M1 is out probably once I hit 3K, and then put Redline 5W30 that I can buy in local store. It is $12 per quart, but my CC is also pretty expensive, so....


Yet the Redline oil has ZERO of the factory approvals (including the VW ones that your car likely requires) that the M1 0w-40 does.

M1 0w-40 is a more modern lubricant than GC. It is also a bit heavier. And it is a blend of VISOM, PAO, AN's....etc. All kinds of goodies in that product. So while it isn't predominantly a PAO-based lubricant anymore (in the SN flavour), it isn't just a "group III" oil either. And we know more about M1 0w-40 than we do about GC because Castrol is incredible vague with their Product Data Sheets to the point where they really don't provide much meaningful data at all.

It is inexpensive only in the USA BTW, in the rest of the world, Mobil 1 lubricants aren't cheap. It is likely due to sheer volume that they are willing to sell at the price they do.

 

[05LGTLtd]

Edge goes on sale BOGO every now and then at AAP. That makes it $4.50 a quart for GC if your AAP carries it, or can transfer it in from a nearby store. More common is the 5+ filter deal. Right now it is with a Fram Ultra filter, which I usually give to my dad or get one that fits the lawn mower. If you allow $5 for the filter, your at $5/qt for the oil. I think they allow extra quarts @ 25% off, or just buy two complete deals.

I've heard of some folks returning the filters to walmart or another store for credit as well. Most AAP carry edge 0w-40 now. Mine also carries the 5w-40. Easy to check multiple locations on the AAP web site to see what's available near you.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
It is inexpensive only in the USA BTW, in the rest of the world, Mobil 1 lubricants aren't cheap. It is likely due to sheer volume that they are willing to sell at the price they do.

Of course, it doesn't hurt that they get it in 5 quart jugs down there. If GC were available down south in 5 quart jugs, too, I bet it would be a little more competitive. Up here, it doesn't matter; you get hosed either way.

 

[05LGTLtd]

That reminds me I stopped in my local AAP, and they had 5qt jugs of Edge 0w-40 (BC) now as well as the single quarts they had before.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: edyvw

When it comes to oil I personnaly never think of difference in price.
Yeah, M1 is cheap, I just put it in for $24 fo 5qt. However, when I see price that low I always think there is a reason for that.
I personnaly put M1 bcs i did not found any store here that carries some other PAO or Ester oil with higher flash point then GC, so I got M1 that ahs pretty decent flash point (althought it is GIII+).
I did find that now, so M1 is out probably once I hit 3K, and then put Redline 5W30 that I can buy in local store. It is $12 per quart, but my CC is also pretty expensive, so....


Yet the Redline oil has ZERO of the factory approvals (including the VW ones that your car likely requires) that the M1 0w-40 does.

M1 0w-40 is a more modern lubricant than GC. It is also a bit heavier. And it is a blend of VISOM, PAO, AN's....etc. All kinds of goodies in that product. So while it isn't predominantly a PAO-based lubricant anymore (in the SN flavour), it isn't just a "group III" oil either. And we know more about M1 0w-40 than we do about GC because Castrol is incredible vague with their Product Data Sheets to the point where they really don't provide much meaningful data at all.

It is inexpensive only in the USA BTW, in the rest of the world, Mobil 1 lubricants aren't cheap. It is likely due to sheer volume that they are willing to sell at the price they do.


I am sometimes using M1 in Europe in my car. It is much more expensive (as well as ANY other oil) but meets API SM and it is full synthetic formula (PAO based).
Sorry, but from my experience GC provided much smoother engine, easier cold starts.
Yes, Redline does not have manfg. approvals, but guess what, I am out of warranty, and although English is my second language and considering my education, I can read and understand what are Esters, what is NOACK (6% in case of RL 5W30), HTHS (3.7 5W30), and flash point (232c).
My car is getting soon Carbonio intake, APR chip flash, probably thicker sway bar and larger downpipe, so warranty is not of my concern, but it is lubrication, especially when I am increasing power from 200hp to approx 280hp.
And this being said, I do believe M1 is going to do OK job, but want better then that

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw


I am sometimes using M1 in Europe in my car. It is much more expensive (as well as ANY other oil) but meets API SM and it is full synthetic formula (PAO based).
Sorry, but from my experience GC provided much smoother engine, easier cold starts.


Yup, I'm sure it does in some engines. We've had the opposite claims as well though on here, where M1 0w-40 was quieter than GC

Quote:
Yes, Redline does not have manfg. approvals, but guess what, I am out of warranty,


On a 2010? Wow, that's actually surprising! What's the warranty on that car?

Quote:
and although English is my second language and considering my education, I can read and understand what are Esters, what is NOACK (6% in case of RL 5W30), HTHS (3.7 5W30), and flash point (232c).


Not doubting your reading skills. But manufacturer certification and approval is certainly relevant. And of course Mobil uses esters too.... They just don't make a predominantly POE-based PCMO. Though they do with their turbine oils. I'm sure there is a reason for that

Regardless, Porsche/VW/Audi as well as Mercedes have all tested M1 0w-40 and approved if. If you haven't looked up the Porsche oil test videos on Youtube, I encourage you to do so, they are pretty wild!

Quote:
My car is getting soon Carbonio intake, APR chip flash, probably thicker sway bar and larger downpipe, so warranty is not of my concern, but it is lubrication, especially when I am increasing power from 200hp to approx 280hp.
And this being said, I do believe M1 is going to do OK job, but want better then that

I'm sure it would do more than an OK job, I run it in my 400HP M5 and have no worries about it being up to the task. I won't run a non-approved (LL-01) lubricant in this car because I have a great deal of faith in the manufacturer testing and approval process due to how extensive it is.

To each their own

 

[TrevorS]

M1 0w40 is factory fill for AMG, so Mercedes is recommending it for 600+HP while they factory fill with another (lesser?) Mobil oil for non AMG vehicles including 400+HP vehicles such as my own Mercedes with the 5.5L normally aspirated V8.

I guess they're putting this lesser oil in twin turbo 4L vehicles as well.

I'm currently preferring Ultra Euro 5w40 over M1 0w40. In Europe and elsewhere that's Shell Helix Ultra and its a relatively good price in non US markets esp vs M1 0w40.

 

[edyvw]

@Overkill:

Quote:
On a 2010? Wow, that's actually surprising! What's the warranty on that car?


Yeah, I bought it with 28K in the end of march 2012, now it has 61k. Had CPO until 60K.
Listen, we both agree that M1 is good oil. However, it is not the best. VW puts Castrol 5W40 in their vehicles, but we all know it is not even close in quality as M1 or GC or PU or RL etc. In the end of the day, I did put M1 last week in my car (I already have 750miles on it

). But I do prefer GC, it is just that I had better experience in 1.8T with GC (much smoother in that engine then M1), the fact that CC or my wife's Tiguan does not burn a drop of oil, and to knock on wood, still did not have manifold issues. Only reason I went with M1 is the fact that M1 has 15c higher flash point and now I live on 6,100ft, which loweres flash point around 7c.
Also, when it comes to your M5, I would be more confident with M1 in that vehicle then in TSI engine.
That M5 is good ole engine with indirect injection, big displacement etc. TSI has too many issues with carbon, manifold, fuel dillution, that is why I think 100% synthetic, especially ester would be better.
And I get the point when it comes to manufacturers and their approval, but RL or Amsoil are not some unknow companies that would sell anything in their packages.
I am particurarly interested in RL because of NOACK of 6%. I know that this new PU 5W40 has NOACK of 6%, and would go with PU in a heart beat, but all this thing with new oil in old packages is just too funny!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
@Overkill:

Quote:
On a 2010? Wow, that's actually surprising! What's the warranty on that car?


Yeah, I bought it with 28K in the end of march 2012, now it has 61k. Had CPO until 60K.
Listen, we both agree that M1 is good oil. However, it is not the best. VW puts Castrol 5W40 in their vehicles, but we all know it is not even close in quality as M1 or GC or PU or RL etc. In the end of the day, I did put M1 last week in my car (I already have 750miles on it

). But I do prefer GC, it is just that I had better experience in 1.8T with GC (much smoother in that engine then M1), the fact that CC or my wife's Tiguan does not burn a drop of oil, and to knock on wood, still did not have manifold issues. Only reason I went with M1 is the fact that M1 has 15c higher flash point and now I live on 6,100ft, which loweres flash point around 7c.
Also, when it comes to your M5, I would be more confident with M1 in that vehicle then in TSI engine.
That M5 is good ole engine with indirect injection, big displacement etc. TSI has too many issues with carbon, manifold, fuel dillution, that is why I think 100% synthetic, especially ester would be better.
And I get the point when it comes to manufacturers and their approval, but RL or Amsoil are not some unknow companies that would sell anything in their packages.
I am particurarly interested in RL because of NOACK of 6%. I know that this new PU 5W40 has NOACK of 6%, and would go with PU in a heart beat, but all this thing with new oil in old packages is just too funny!


LOL! Well M1 0w-40 is only 8.8%, so not far off really

I think we don't apply the same weight to the manufacturers certs and approvals and that's cool, that's why we have choices right?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: edyvw
@Overkill:

Quote:
On a 2010? Wow, that's actually surprising! What's the warranty on that car?


Yeah, I bought it with 28K in the end of march 2012, now it has 61k. Had CPO until 60K.
Listen, we both agree that M1 is good oil. However, it is not the best. VW puts Castrol 5W40 in their vehicles, but we all know it is not even close in quality as M1 or GC or PU or RL etc. In the end of the day, I did put M1 last week in my car (I already have 750miles on it

). But I do prefer GC, it is just that I had better experience in 1.8T with GC (much smoother in that engine then M1), the fact that CC or my wife's Tiguan does not burn a drop of oil, and to knock on wood, still did not have manifold issues. Only reason I went with M1 is the fact that M1 has 15c higher flash point and now I live on 6,100ft, which loweres flash point around 7c.
Also, when it comes to your M5, I would be more confident with M1 in that vehicle then in TSI engine.
That M5 is good ole engine with indirect injection, big displacement etc. TSI has too many issues with carbon, manifold, fuel dillution, that is why I think 100% synthetic, especially ester would be better.
And I get the point when it comes to manufacturers and their approval, but RL or Amsoil are not some unknow companies that would sell anything in their packages.
I am particurarly interested in RL because of NOACK of 6%. I know that this new PU 5W40 has NOACK of 6%, and would go with PU in a heart beat, but all this thing with new oil in old packages is just too funny!


LOL! Well M1 0w-40 is only 8.8%, so not far off really

I think we don't apply the same weight to the manufacturers certs and approvals and that's cool, that's why we have choices right?

Well, I put M1 bcs it meets MB 229.5 which means NOACK is below 10%.
Now, 6% is really good.
However, my wife's Tig has GC in it. Once she moves here I will change oil and will take sample, take sample from my CC and will do RL and take sample and send for UOA.
So we will see, it might be interesting.
Tig is driven like 8miles a day (4 miles one direction, all city driving, like 10 stop lights to the work, top 45 miles an hour). Only open road that it will see will be from San Diego to Colorado Springs (approx. 1100 miles). So it would be good sample to take a look.

 

[OVERKILL]

Indeed! BTW, if it helps, with respect to consumption, so far, in a 10K OCI, I've gone through 1L of PU 5w-40 in my M5 (supposedly the low volatility SN version... but in the SM bottle of course

) which is the exact same as what I went through with the SM version of M1 0w-40 when I ran it previously

It'll be interesting to compare the UOA's to see how the TBN held up, as the fuel dilution was epic with the M1 (I ran it last winter) but the TBN was still ridiculously high.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Indeed! BTW, if it helps, with respect to consumption, so far, in a 10K OCI, I've gone through 1L of PU 5w-40 in my M5 (supposedly the low volatility SN version... but in the SM bottle of course

) which is the exact same as what I went through with the SM version of M1 0w-40 when I ran it previously

It'll be interesting to compare the UOA's to see how the TBN held up, as the fuel dilution was epic with the M1 (I ran it last winter) but the TBN was still ridiculously high.

One of the reasons why I moved from M1 to GC is smell of gas.
So I got CC, and put M1 (bcs it is thicker, and thinking bcs of fuel dilution should be better).
It was "stinking" horribly.
With GC, you could smell, but nothing like with M1 (SN version).
I know, it is not some science, but that is what I observed.
Do not know with PU, but mght try that too.

 

[kjbock]

As an update, I just drained out the Liqui Moly in my engine and will run a UOA. I drove a lot of short trips this winter and my engine is relatively new (~5000 miles), so I went ahead and changed the oil.

I replaced it with GC, 0W-30. The engine does run smoother and quieter with GC over the LM. The only thing I noticed negative so far with the GC is the engine at idle has a ever so slight shimmy/vibration once in awhile. Of course, that could just be my OCD about my car kicking in.