Redline 10w60 - 2011 M3 - Mix?

[BigMac]

I searched. I read for over an hour. I've got a case of Redline 10w60 sitting on my desk at work. I apparently should've read threads here before buying it, but I get a solid discount on it through work and my Castrol TWS discount isn't great. I was unable to find a thread that discussed long term use of the RL instead of the TWS. I did find several threads that discussed how much thicked the RL 10w60 is than the TWS.

I'm in Arizona, so I've got pretty high temps year round.

Just passed the 50k mark, so no more free oil changes.

Should I pawn this case off on someone else on Craigslist, man up, and buy TWS?

Can I mix in a couple quarts of some Redline 0w40 or perhaps another Redline weight?

Thanks in advance for the guidance!

-James

 

[edyvw]

I do not see why not. Probably is same base stock.
2-3 quarts of 0W40 will not hurt.

 

[BigMac]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
I do not see why not. Probably is same base stock.
2-3 quarts of 0W40 will not hurt.


It will not hurt, but will it help? Car does not see track use, but does see very aggressive driving on a nearly daily basis. Want to ensure I find the happy medium of not too thick, but not too thin.

I realize it's quite possible my question cannot be accurately answered.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: BigMac
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I do not see why not. Probably is same base stock.
2-3 quarts of 0W40 will not hurt.


It will not hurt, but will it help? Car does not see track use, but does see very aggressive driving on a nearly daily basis. Want to ensure I find the happy medium of not too thick, but not too thin.

I realize it's quite possible my question cannot be accurately answered.

True, like you said it might not be answered with 100% accuracy.
What I know, 3qt of 0W40 will help a little during colder months that are coming (which is not concern there, but still).
It will lower cst, and considering that it is ester basestock, I would not worry too much whether it would thin too much.
I am sure it would help if you put 3qt of 0W40.

 

[dparm]

You should mix it to get a final HTHS of about 4.0-4.5, as that's what the TWS will typically shear down to over its life.

Red Line 10w60 starts as 5.8, and your sump is 9 quarts. If you mix it 1:1 with Red Line 0w30, you'll get an HTHS of around 4.5. If you do 5 quarts of 0w30 and 4 quarts of the 10w60, it would be 4.35. If you do 6 quarts of 0w30 and 3 quarts of the 10w60, it would be 4.07.

 

[A_Harman]

^^^^^
What he said.

 

[d00df00d]

TWS has been co-developed by BMW and Castrol, specifically for M engines. In turn, your M3's engine was designed with TWS in mind.

None of that is true of Red Line 10w-60, much less whatever blend you'd end up with by mixing it with another grade.

No contest, IMO. Stick with TWS.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
TWS has been co-developed by BMW and Castrol, specifically for M engines. In turn, your M3's engine was designed with TWS in mind.

None of that is true of Red Line 10w-60, much less whatever blend you'd end up with by mixing it with another grade.

No contest, IMO. Stick with TWS.



He doesn't have to. The new bulletin allows for any LL-01 oil, which will probably improve cold starts, gas mileage, and overall engine smoothness. The S65 suffers from bucking-bronco syndrome at startup, and the folks who moved to LL-01 oils reported that it actually runs much smoother.

 

[d00df00d]

Yes. However:

1. OP lives in Arizona and is concerned about high temps;
2. OP was asking about choosing between Red Line and TWS; and
3. Red Line makes no products that carry the approvals specified in the new bulletin.

 

[BigMac]

What are your thoughts on the rod bearing issues with M3's being possibly linked to the oil being too thick?

I'm hopeful I don't have to worry about it too much as I believe there were some changes made in '10 to address the problem, but I believe there have still been some '10's and '11's that have had issues.

 

[d00df00d]

I'm pretty sure most people don't wait as long as they should for the car to warm up before romping on it; you should drive it really mildly until at least 5-10 minutes AFTER all of the gauges are in the right place. And I'm definitely sure that most people don't drive the car as it's meant to be driven once it's warm, i.e. wide-open throttle and all 8400 RPM all day every day.

If you drive more or less like a normal person, use the Castrol Edge Professional OE 5w-30 that BMW now specs (alongside TWS) for your engine. Or, if you're super nervous about high temps, use Mobil 1 0w-40, which also carries BMW's approval.

If you actually use your car for what it's good for, then you should have no problem with TWS. Just make sure you drive really mildly until everything's warm (again, 5-10 minutes after all the gauges say you're up to temp), and then show it no mercy afterward.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: BigMac
What are your thoughts on the rod bearing issues with M3's being possibly linked to the oil being too thick?

I'm hopeful I don't have to worry about it too much as I believe there were some changes made in '10 to address the problem, but I believe there have still been some '10's and '11's that have had issues.



I'm not sure what to think yet. It's not unusual at all for parts to be randomly updated over the course of a model's life (part of the reason I avoid the first year or two of a new model). Also an interesting coincidence that BMW is allowing thinner oils too.

We may never know.

 

[BigMac]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I'm pretty sure most people don't wait as long as they should for the car to warm up before romping on it; you should drive it really mildly until at least 5-10 minutes AFTER all of the gauges are in the right place. And I'm definitely sure that most people don't drive the car as it's meant to be driven once it's warm, i.e. wide-open throttle and all 8400 RPM all day every day.

If you drive more or less like a normal person, use the Castrol Edge Professional OE 5w-30 that BMW now specs (alongside TWS) for your engine. Or, if you're super nervous about high temps, use Mobil 1 0w-40, which also carries BMW's approval.

If you actually use your car for what it's good for, then you should have no problem with TWS. Just make sure you drive really mildly until everything's warm (again, 5-10 minutes after all the gauges say you're up to temp), and then show it no mercy afterward.


Sounds like I'm driving it the way it was meant to be driven. My commute is roughly 30 minutes long each way with me being on the freeway within 5 minutes or so of starting it up. I keep it easy 'til it's up to full operating temp, and the rest of my commute is spent with M Mode on as I navigate through all the terrible drivers down here. It sees 8000rpm a few times a day.

So, with that in mind, who wants to buy 11 quarts of Redline 10w60?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: dparm
I'm not sure what to think yet. It's not unusual at all for parts to be randomly updated over the course of a model's life (part of the reason I avoid the first year or two of a new model). Also an interesting coincidence that BMW is allowing thinner oils too.

We may never know.

Well said.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: BigMac

So, with that in mind, who wants to buy 11 quarts of Redline 10w60?

That's funny!
If you can't exchange it for some RL 0W-40 you could still blend it with some RL 0W-20. A 60/40 blend in favour of the 0W-20 will give you a 5W-40 with viscosity characteristics similar to PU SM 5W-40.
Or if you don't mind blending with another brand a 50/50 blend will TGMO 0W-20 will give you a 200 VI 5W-40 with viscosity characteristics similar to M1 0W-40 in your climate.

BTW you do have an oil temp' gauge in your car, what's your highest oil temp's?

 

[BigMac]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BigMac

So, with that in mind, who wants to buy 11 quarts of Redline 10w60?

That's funny!
If you can't exchange it for some RL 0W-40 you could still blend it with some RL 0W-20. A 60/40 blend in favour of the 0W-20 will give you a 5W-40 with viscosity characteristics similar to PU SM 5W-40.
Or if you don't mind blending with another brand a 50/50 blend will TGMO 0W-20 will give you a 200 VI 5W-40 with viscosity characteristics similar to M1 0W-40 in your climate.

BTW you do have an oil temp' gauge in your car, what's your highest oil temp's?



I think the highest I've seen my oil temps hit so far is probably about 230. The gauge is centered at 210. Over the last month or so, it has stayed pretty much right in the middle. When we had a few 115 degree days down here and I was driving it a little aggressive, it made it about mid way between 210 and the little hash mark which is 255.

 

[CATERHAM]

Okay, even with the occasional visit to 230F I think a premium 0W/5W-40 will still provide a very healthy viscosity reserve.
Keep in mind it's still considerably heavier than 5W-30 FF your M3 came with.
I believe the main reason behind the 10W-60 grade was (is) to deal with the high oil consumption associated with routinely driving at 150+ mph and constant high rev's and high oil temp's on the autobahn.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: BigMac


Sounds like I'm driving it the way it was meant to be driven. My commute is roughly 30 minutes long each way with me being on the freeway within 5 minutes or so of starting it up. I keep it easy 'til it's up to full operating temp, and the rest of my commute is spent with M Mode on as I navigate through all the terrible drivers down here. It sees 8000rpm a few times a day.



No, THIS is the way it's meant to be driven...and I'm being totally serious:

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
CATERHAM - I believe that the use of the Castrol Ester version of 10W-60 was originally specified to assist with some production/design/warranty issues with certain BMW engines (one in particular) of over a decade ago

I once had paperwork on this but can't locate it as of now

 

[BigMac]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: BigMac


Sounds like I'm driving it the way it was meant to be driven. My commute is roughly 30 minutes long each way with me being on the freeway within 5 minutes or so of starting it up. I keep it easy 'til it's up to full operating temp, and the rest of my commute is spent with M Mode on as I navigate through all the terrible drivers down here. It sees 8000rpm a few times a day.



No, THIS is the way it's meant to be driven...and I'm being totally serious:

Well yes, that too. I do plan to track it occasionally.

For what it's worth, I work at Vivid Racing here in Gilbert, AZ.