I would not worry if you just knock around town @ 35 mph or so. I would not hit the big road @85 mph on it though. I have plugged many sidewalls. But those were on jeeps and such that never leave the trails.
Tire shop put plug on shoulder by the sidewall
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Originally Posted By: stephen9666
The "correct" thing to do is to replace the tire. That's not a manufacturer approved repair. But some of the claims being made here about the tire "blowing out" are being blown out of proportion.
I used to work at a shop that installed thousands of plugs. The most problem we ever had that I can remember were slow leaks on old plugs and those were quite rare. But we generally would not have repaired that tire.
But I will say that of our vehicles has a plug in a tire in sort of a similar location and it has held for many thousands of miles.
+1 That has been similar to my experience with the rope type plugs which I'm assuming is what that tire shop used.
Before Disc. Tire came to the area I used to do many diy rope type puncture repairs on "unrepairable areas". Worst that ever happened was a very slow leak after many thousand miles. I also noticed that a slow leak was more likely to develop while on the front than when on the rear. In "repairable areas" I had plugs last the life of the tire.
That said, it's certainly not going to meet the good housekeeping seal of approval or in this case the RMA Rubber Manufacturers Assoc. seal of approval as posted at DT's website for the repairable area.
It comes down to your comfort level versus the cost involved for a new tire and how long you expect your current set to last. Based on my experience though the worst case with the plug if you keep using it 'may' be a slow leak at some point.
The "correct" thing to do is to replace the tire. That's not a manufacturer approved repair. But some of the claims being made here about the tire "blowing out" are being blown out of proportion.
I used to work at a shop that installed thousands of plugs. The most problem we ever had that I can remember were slow leaks on old plugs and those were quite rare. But we generally would not have repaired that tire.
But I will say that of our vehicles has a plug in a tire in sort of a similar location and it has held for many thousands of miles.
+1 That has been similar to my experience with the rope type plugs which I'm assuming is what that tire shop used.
Before Disc. Tire came to the area I used to do many diy rope type puncture repairs on "unrepairable areas". Worst that ever happened was a very slow leak after many thousand miles. I also noticed that a slow leak was more likely to develop while on the front than when on the rear. In "repairable areas" I had plugs last the life of the tire.
That said, it's certainly not going to meet the good housekeeping seal of approval or in this case the RMA Rubber Manufacturers Assoc. seal of approval as posted at DT's website for the repairable area.
It comes down to your comfort level versus the cost involved for a new tire and how long you expect your current set to last. Based on my experience though the worst case with the plug if you keep using it 'may' be a slow leak at some point.
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: KB2008X
but in most states that repair is flat-out illegal. Illegal for a very good reason.
Can you cite some sources?
I see the tire manufacturer trade group wants states to pass laws about tire repairs, but I don't see much about states actually doing it.
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/channel/...px?prestitial=1
Additional info here. This article claims no states have laws regarding legal/illegal tire repairs, but I don't know if that's accurate. He may be referring to federal laws, but then later he refers to the proposed tire repair laws, which would be on the state level.
http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/2012...ot-some-answers
Quote:
What laws exist today governing tire repair?
In the U.S., none.
No, actually, I cannot cite any sources at this time. Nor do I have the time or the know-how to research it, but it's my understanding that there are laws against those kinds of repairs. But, I have to admit I'm not aware of anyone being prosecuted for such a repair.
Originally Posted By: KB2008X
but in most states that repair is flat-out illegal. Illegal for a very good reason.
Can you cite some sources?
I see the tire manufacturer trade group wants states to pass laws about tire repairs, but I don't see much about states actually doing it.
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/channel/...px?prestitial=1
Additional info here. This article claims no states have laws regarding legal/illegal tire repairs, but I don't know if that's accurate. He may be referring to federal laws, but then later he refers to the proposed tire repair laws, which would be on the state level.
http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/2012...ot-some-answers
Quote:
What laws exist today governing tire repair?
In the U.S., none.
No, actually, I cannot cite any sources at this time. Nor do I have the time or the know-how to research it, but it's my understanding that there are laws against those kinds of repairs. But, I have to admit I'm not aware of anyone being prosecuted for such a repair.
Way back when, I had a sidewall puncture repaired by having the hole patched and putting a tube in the tire.
This worked fine for the life of the tire, a Michelin XZX, IIRC, in a 155-12. Guess what car that would have fit.
I doubt you'd find a tube in an appropriate size nor a shop willing to do such a repair today.
The danger of a plug in certain locations is that it can be cut, resulting in a very rapid loss of air, akin to a blowout.
If the tire has been plugged, it may not be a good bet and could fail at any time, although it could be fine.
I think I'd just replace it and chalk it up to random misfortune.
This worked fine for the life of the tire, a Michelin XZX, IIRC, in a 155-12. Guess what car that would have fit.
I doubt you'd find a tube in an appropriate size nor a shop willing to do such a repair today.
The danger of a plug in certain locations is that it can be cut, resulting in a very rapid loss of air, akin to a blowout.
If the tire has been plugged, it may not be a good bet and could fail at any time, although it could be fine.
I think I'd just replace it and chalk it up to random misfortune.
Originally Posted By: KB2008X
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: KB2008X
but in most states that repair is flat-out illegal. Illegal for a very good reason.
Can you cite some sources?
I see the tire manufacturer trade group wants states to pass laws about tire repairs, but I don't see much about states actually doing it.
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/channel/...px?prestitial=1
Additional info here. This article claims no states have laws regarding legal/illegal tire repairs, but I don't know if that's accurate. He may be referring to federal laws, but then later he refers to the proposed tire repair laws, which would be on the state level.
http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/2012...ot-some-answers
Quote:
What laws exist today governing tire repair?
In the U.S., none.
No, actually, I cannot cite any sources at this time. Nor do I have the time or the know-how to research it, but it's my understanding that there are laws against those kinds of repairs. But, I have to admit I'm not aware of anyone being prosecuted for such a repair.
I think it's an exaggeration to say that "in most states that repair is flat-out illegal."
It may be illegal in some states, although I can find no info saying that. I highly doubt it's illegal in "most states," or google searches would turn up results.
My guess is that at the most severe the consequences would be failing an inspection for an improper repair, but that doesn't necessarily make it "illegal" to do this type of repair.
While googling I found some info on the Texas and NY inspection requirements. Neither says a plug is a reason to fail. The New York rules don't even address tire repairs.
http://txtire.com/blog/view/tire-requirements-texas-vehicle-inspection
The Texas rules say "nail hole plugs" are not a reason for rejection, if this website is to be believed.
http://txtire.com/blog/view/tire-requirements-texas-vehicle-inspection
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: KB2008X
but in most states that repair is flat-out illegal. Illegal for a very good reason.
Can you cite some sources?
I see the tire manufacturer trade group wants states to pass laws about tire repairs, but I don't see much about states actually doing it.
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/channel/...px?prestitial=1
Additional info here. This article claims no states have laws regarding legal/illegal tire repairs, but I don't know if that's accurate. He may be referring to federal laws, but then later he refers to the proposed tire repair laws, which would be on the state level.
http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/2012...ot-some-answers
Quote:
What laws exist today governing tire repair?
In the U.S., none.
No, actually, I cannot cite any sources at this time. Nor do I have the time or the know-how to research it, but it's my understanding that there are laws against those kinds of repairs. But, I have to admit I'm not aware of anyone being prosecuted for such a repair.
I think it's an exaggeration to say that "in most states that repair is flat-out illegal."
It may be illegal in some states, although I can find no info saying that. I highly doubt it's illegal in "most states," or google searches would turn up results.
My guess is that at the most severe the consequences would be failing an inspection for an improper repair, but that doesn't necessarily make it "illegal" to do this type of repair.
While googling I found some info on the Texas and NY inspection requirements. Neither says a plug is a reason to fail. The New York rules don't even address tire repairs.
http://txtire.com/blog/view/tire-requirements-texas-vehicle-inspection
The Texas rules say "nail hole plugs" are not a reason for rejection, if this website is to be believed.
http://txtire.com/blog/view/tire-requirements-texas-vehicle-inspection
Maine used to have rope plugs illegal per the inspection requirements. (It's also illegal to fix/ modify a car so that it fails inspection.) Then a year or two ago they printed off a new manual that allows rope plugs.
It's been bandied about that it's still illegal for commercial/ DOT/ school busses etc which I'm too lazy to research now.
It's been bandied about that it's still illegal for commercial/ DOT/ school busses etc which I'm too lazy to research now.
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: KB2008X
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: KB2008X
but in most states that repair is flat-out illegal. Illegal for a very good reason.
Can you cite some sources?
I see the tire manufacturer trade group wants states to pass laws about tire repairs, but I don't see much about states actually doing it.
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/channel/...px?prestitial=1
Additional info here. This article claims no states have laws regarding legal/illegal tire repairs, but I don't know if that's accurate. He may be referring to federal laws, but then later he refers to the proposed tire repair laws, which would be on the state level.
http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/2012...ot-some-answers
Quote:
What laws exist today governing tire repair?
In the U.S., none.
No, actually, I cannot cite any sources at this time. Nor do I have the time or the know-how to research it, but it's my understanding that there are laws against those kinds of repairs. But, I have to admit I'm not aware of anyone being prosecuted for such a repair.
I think it's an exaggeration to say that "in most states that repair is flat-out illegal."
It may be illegal in some states, although I can find no info saying that. I highly doubt it's illegal in "most states," or google searches would turn up results.
My guess is that at the most severe the consequences would be failing an inspection for an improper repair, but that doesn't necessarily make it "illegal" to do this type of repair.
While googling I found some info on the Texas and NY inspection requirements. Neither says a plug is a reason to fail. The New York rules don't even address tire repairs.
http://txtire.com/blog/view/tire-requirements-texas-vehicle-inspection
The Texas rules say "nail hole plugs" are not a reason for rejection, if this website is to be believed.
http://txtire.com/blog/view/tire-requirements-texas-vehicle-inspection
In NY tires are not part of inspection, although there are laws dictating minimum tread depth.
Originally Posted By: KB2008X
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: KB2008X
but in most states that repair is flat-out illegal. Illegal for a very good reason.
Can you cite some sources?
I see the tire manufacturer trade group wants states to pass laws about tire repairs, but I don't see much about states actually doing it.
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/channel/...px?prestitial=1
Additional info here. This article claims no states have laws regarding legal/illegal tire repairs, but I don't know if that's accurate. He may be referring to federal laws, but then later he refers to the proposed tire repair laws, which would be on the state level.
http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/2012...ot-some-answers
Quote:
What laws exist today governing tire repair?
In the U.S., none.
No, actually, I cannot cite any sources at this time. Nor do I have the time or the know-how to research it, but it's my understanding that there are laws against those kinds of repairs. But, I have to admit I'm not aware of anyone being prosecuted for such a repair.
I think it's an exaggeration to say that "in most states that repair is flat-out illegal."
It may be illegal in some states, although I can find no info saying that. I highly doubt it's illegal in "most states," or google searches would turn up results.
My guess is that at the most severe the consequences would be failing an inspection for an improper repair, but that doesn't necessarily make it "illegal" to do this type of repair.
While googling I found some info on the Texas and NY inspection requirements. Neither says a plug is a reason to fail. The New York rules don't even address tire repairs.
http://txtire.com/blog/view/tire-requirements-texas-vehicle-inspection
The Texas rules say "nail hole plugs" are not a reason for rejection, if this website is to be believed.
http://txtire.com/blog/view/tire-requirements-texas-vehicle-inspection
In NY tires are not part of inspection, although there are laws dictating minimum tread depth.
Originally Posted By: Canawler
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
a 155-12. Guess what car that would have fit.
I've got this one... my second car was an '83 Civic which used that size tire.
My wife's Festiva also used it, though I think the OE size (no longer available) was actually a 145R12.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
a 155-12. Guess what car that would have fit.
My wife's Festiva also used it, though I think the OE size (no longer available) was actually a 145R12.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Drive it. Worst case scenario you lose air over sixty seconds.
Do you have TPMS?
If the Pilgrims worried this much about the Mayflower's equipment we'd all still be saluting the King of England...
I tend to agree with this, except for the worst case of 60 seconds. Small punctures don't go flat in a minute or even two. More like quite a few minutes to hours.
A small puncture and small leak will not simply blow such that you loose air instantly and loose control of the vehicle without first showing signs of being very low on air.
More likely, you would loose pressure over hours. One would have to completely disregard roadfeel and many other clues in order not to realize that the pressure is dangerously low. If it does get to that point, and the tire blows from heat and stress of improper inflation, it will go from dangerously low to no air pressure accompanied by very loud noise, as the rubber thrashes all over.
The same can happen to perfectly new and great tires, if a nail on the road or sharp debris punctures any of the four tires. There is no substitute for attentiveness (or a tpms alert).
What PSI do you have your tires at, for front, and rear?
Unless rears are significantly lower than front, there are more arguments that I can think of, for leaving it on the front.
First, fronts wear faster, because there is more load on the front axle typically. I would want to put the fast wear on the "bad" tire to get it replaced sooner. Secondly, a rear tire low on air is less noticeable than a front tire low on air, at least I would think so... unless you have tpms of course. And furthermore, you want the best traction on for curves on the rear (to prevent oversteer instability) and if you're running somewhat low without noticing, you might get somewhat worse traction.
If you don't have tpms and are very worried, you might buy piece of mind by replacing.
Drive it. Worst case scenario you lose air over sixty seconds.
Do you have TPMS?
If the Pilgrims worried this much about the Mayflower's equipment we'd all still be saluting the King of England...
I tend to agree with this, except for the worst case of 60 seconds. Small punctures don't go flat in a minute or even two. More like quite a few minutes to hours.
A small puncture and small leak will not simply blow such that you loose air instantly and loose control of the vehicle without first showing signs of being very low on air.
More likely, you would loose pressure over hours. One would have to completely disregard roadfeel and many other clues in order not to realize that the pressure is dangerously low. If it does get to that point, and the tire blows from heat and stress of improper inflation, it will go from dangerously low to no air pressure accompanied by very loud noise, as the rubber thrashes all over.
The same can happen to perfectly new and great tires, if a nail on the road or sharp debris punctures any of the four tires. There is no substitute for attentiveness (or a tpms alert).
What PSI do you have your tires at, for front, and rear?
Unless rears are significantly lower than front, there are more arguments that I can think of, for leaving it on the front.
First, fronts wear faster, because there is more load on the front axle typically. I would want to put the fast wear on the "bad" tire to get it replaced sooner. Secondly, a rear tire low on air is less noticeable than a front tire low on air, at least I would think so... unless you have tpms of course. And furthermore, you want the best traction on for curves on the rear (to prevent oversteer instability) and if you're running somewhat low without noticing, you might get somewhat worse traction.
If you don't have tpms and are very worried, you might buy piece of mind by replacing.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Canawler
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
a 155-12. Guess what car that would have fit.
I've got this one... my second car was an '83 Civic which used that size tire.
My wife's Festiva also used it, though I think the OE size (no longer available) was actually a 145R12.
This car was actually a '76 Civic CVCC 1500.
I'm pretty sure the tires were a 155 section width, although they might have been 145s.
Hard to imagine 12" wheels when 15" ones are now considered small.
Originally Posted By: Canawler
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
a 155-12. Guess what car that would have fit.
My wife's Festiva also used it, though I think the OE size (no longer available) was actually a 145R12.
This car was actually a '76 Civic CVCC 1500.
I'm pretty sure the tires were a 155 section width, although they might have been 145s.
Hard to imagine 12" wheels when 15" ones are now considered small.
I drove on a tire for at least 2 years that had an inside the tire patch and a plug near the sidewall. It leaked, but not that much that it ever caused a problem. If you knew where to look you could see a bulge on the sidewall. I put it in the right rear of a small, front wheel drive car and just didn't rotate my tires.
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