New Yamaha EF2000iS inverter Generator Oil Issue

[boraticus]

I agree that oil consumption "appears" to have improved. I'll continue to monitor and keep measurements and data as correct as possible. When working with only a 400 ml. fill, it doesn't take much to effect the measurements. If the generator is even on the slightest angle, the correct fill can be thrown off. The good news is that Yamaha provided a three year warranty (5 years now if bought before Oct. 31st). I've got plenty of time to see how things develop. The down side is that with a possible oil issue, the longer I wait to make a warranty claim, the more resistance I may receive from Yamaha account more time on the machine. I'll probably contact Yamaha soon to advise that the machine is using excessive oil but I'm willing to wait to see if consumption improves. That way I'll have a complaint record on file.

I intend to continue the use of conventional oil. At least until the machine gets to normal oil consumption levels - which to me should be none.

Regarding less oil consumption at higher loads. On a new/fresh engine, you're probably right. However, from my experience, most engines with oil consumption issues, when pressed hard, tend to use more oil.

Other than the oil issue, it's an excellent little generator. Certainly more refined and well built than most I've seen. However, the Hyundai looked very well built too until it went south.

The EF2000 is super quiet and fuel efficient in eco mode and lightly loaded. I see regular returns of 3+ hours per litre with loads under 500 watts.

Really, the oil per se' isn't the issue for me. It's the additional requirements to monitor oil level and top it off as required. My introduction to the oil consumption problem was when the oil level alert switch started to actuate at around 70 hours after the last fill.

Maybe I'll just lower the oil change interval to 69 hours from 100? NOT!

 

[Cujet]

Just spent some time reading reviews. It seems that the oil level monitor is ultra sensitive and at least a few others are seeing the genset shut down overnight. Only to need to add one ounce of oil.

It may be possible to work around this issue. But without a unit in my hands, I'm not exactly sure how,,, yet. What about overfilling by 2 ounces? Or "adjusting" the oil level monitor? Or tilting the unit slightly to submerge the oil level monitor?

 

[boraticus]

Tilting the machine backward will allow for additional oil. However, overfilling will likely cause excessive crank case pressure, blow oil out the crank case ventilation tube and possibly damage crank seals.

When the low oil alert actuated on mine, the oil was down by 200 ml. which is half a fill. So, I'd say that it's working as intended.

Maybe I should try a solid five hours at full load? I'm confident that internal engine bearings are well run in by now so the engine should be ready to handle it.

I suspect the oil is either getting past the rings or possibly leaking past the valve stem seals. If there was an easy way to take a compression reading, that would give me some idea of what's happening. If compression is where it should be, valve seals might be the culprit.

I know the oil is going through the combustion chamber. During the day, there's no visible smoke to be seen. However, in the dark, with a bright l.e.d. flashlight aimed at the exhaust clearly shows a faint blue hue to the exhaust gasses.

Being a splash lubricated engine, I can't think of many options for a work around. Best option is to establish cause of oil consumption and have it fixed. If oil consumption continues, I'll bring it in and have Yamaha figure it out. That is, if they agree that significant oil consumption in a new engine is covered by their Warranty? Either way, we'll get to the bottom of it.

Not the end of the world of course, however, my curiosity is piqued.

If you're actually looking at getting one of these, check out Wise Sales at:
http://www.wisesales.com/generators-1/yamaha-generators.html

Same price as Amazon.com and they have friendly knowledgeable staff.

Believe it or not, in Canada, the very same generator sells for $1499.00 and that's not negotiable. Put 13% on that and we're looking at $1693.87 vs. $1132.00 (taxes and exchange included shipped free to the border) if bought in the US!!! That's a savings of $561.87. Unbelievable. We sure get it in the a$$ in this country...




Originally Posted By: Cujet
Just spent some time reading reviews. It seems that the oil level monitor is ultra sensitive and at least a few others are seeing the genset shut down overnight. Only to need to add one ounce of oil.

It may be possible to work around this issue. But without a unit in my hands, I'm not exactly sure how,,, yet. What about overfilling by 2 ounces? Or "adjusting" the oil level monitor? Or tilting the unit slightly to submerge the oil level monitor?

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle

In the market for an inverter generator myself-thought Yamaha was the BEST?
I'd add Subaru-Robin to that list. I bought the RG4300iS due to its use of all metal components, a timing chain instead of a belt, and cast iron cylinder liner. Additionally, it requires no special tools or jigs for any repair.

 

[crainholio]

Originally Posted By: boraticus

Other than the oil issue, it's an excellent little generator. Certainly more refined and well built than most I've seen. However, the Hyundai looked very well built too until it went south.


Those Hyundai inverters appear to have the inverter unit coils held in place by plastic zip-ties as shown at 2:15 on this video:

Hyundai Generator Teardown

Honda has theirs potted into the inverter module itself and covered in conformal coating, much better design.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle

In the market for an inverter generator myself-thought Yamaha was the BEST?
I'd add Subaru-Robin to that list. I bought the RG4300iS due to its use of all metal components, a timing chain instead of a belt, and cast iron cylinder liner. Additionally, it requires no special tools or jigs for any repair.


I've read good things about the Subaru-Robin inverter generators.

The Yamaha inverters use push rod engines with all metal internals. No plastics in the engine. Believe it or not, the Hyundai engine is a very robust looking piece. Chain driven overhead cam and no plastics. I was very much impressed with the engine. Easy to start, good fuel economy and didn't use a drop of oil! If the rest of the machine had been built as well, it would have been a decent machine other than being too heavy.

 

[boraticus]

So, just out of curiosity, I decided to try a compression test on the generator despite having a decompression mechanism.

Cold engine max. reading was 50 psi. Not surprised by that considering the decompression mechanism. However, I put some clean 15W40 Rotella into the cylinder via the spark plug hole and made sure it was evenly distributed around the cylinder. Tried again and got a reading of a bit over 100 psi!

That tells me that there must be an issue with the compression rings. Otherwise, why the sudden increase in compression by adding oil?

I've been in touch with a Yamaha dealership and waiting to see if they'll have Yamaha's permission to warranty the work. If not, I'll have to open it up myself to have a look see and determine what has to be done.

 

[Quest]

incorrect machining (cross-hatching) of the cylinder bore is the likely cause to begin with.

rings are rings are rings. They will seat fairly quickly so long as the cylinder wall has been properly machined to begin with.

I'd contact Yamaha and see what they can do if I were you.

Q.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: Quest
incorrect machining (cross-hatching) of the cylinder bore is the likely cause to begin with.

rings are rings are rings. They will seat fairly quickly so long as the cylinder wall has been properly machined to begin with.

I'd contact Yamaha and see what they can do if I were you.

Q.


I have contacted the closest US Yamaha dealership and they are going to contact Yamaha to find out what their parameters are for excessive oil consumption. Personally, I believe this machine is well beyond any new engine's oil consumption parameters. We'll have to wait and see what they have to say.

 

[crainholio]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
So, just out of curiosity, I decided to try a compression test on the generator despite having a decompression mechanism.

Cold engine max. reading was 50 psi. Not surprised by that considering the decompression mechanism. However, I put some clean 15W40 Rotella into the cylinder via the spark plug hole and made sure it was evenly distributed around the cylinder. Tried again and got a reading of a bit over 100 psi!


Just a data point for what it's worth, EU2000i compression spec is 70psi. I can't imagine Yamaha fighting you on this.

 

[Tuffy1760]

great thread... I have one of thse on my wish list...

 

[Tuffy1760]

A few comments...
A cheap deal on amazon may not be that good a deal at times... in regard to service and warranty... I did my searchs too and found good prices... might rethink...
I'm guessing most people would buy these and not break them in... Just gas and go... I have 2 friends who use these (yammy 2000) on the road for charging batteries at bass tournaments... they are not engine guys and they love them... no problems at all...
From what I'm reading... you got alot of hours on this thing just trying to break in...
I would guess some well worded emails to the right yamaha people may get you a new replacement...
I watched road crews last year use Honda 1000 W gens... talked to them... they loved them, beat on them good too...
I like some of the features of the yamaha over the honda.

Amazon any help in regards to return policy??
when I get another boat, a small honda or yamaha top of my list of things to get...

I look forward to reading your progress.

 

[boraticus]

From what I've read, Amazon's return policy doesn't apply to large items and items owned over 30 days.

Yamaha doesn't appear to be the most obliging outfit either. Not particularly impressed with their country of purchase only warranty for their products. That seems sleazy to me.

However, it wouldn't hurt to send a message asking for a replacement unit considering this one seems to have been defective right out of the box.

I'll give it a shot.







Originally Posted By: Tuffy1760
A few comments...
A cheap deal on amazon may not be that good a deal at times... in regard to service and warranty... I did my searchs too and found good prices... might rethink...
I'm guessing most people would buy these and not break them in... Just gas and go... I have 2 friends who use these (yammy 2000) on the road for charging batteries at bass tournaments... they are not engine guys and they love them... no problems at all...
From what I'm reading... you got alot of hours on this thing just trying to break in...
I would guess some well worded emails to the right yamaha people may get you a new replacement...
I watched road crews last year use Honda 1000 W gens... talked to them... they loved them, beat on them good too...
I like some of the features of the yamaha over the honda.

Amazon any help in regards to return policy??
when I get another boat, a small honda or yamaha top of my list of things to get...

I look forward to reading your progress.

 

[boraticus]

Just spoke to the Yamaha rep. No replacement. Has to be sent to the shop for repairs.

Not too happy with that. However, I've got three years to get it done. Might as well run it for a while to see if things change. If not, in she goes.....

 

[Tuffy1760]

interesting... I could see them repairing 4 wheelers, outboards and snowmobiles... a little generator?? seems with labor and parts(shipping) a replacement would almost be cheaper...
I'd give some 20w-50 a shot... It's not like they will tear it down and say wrong oil... no computer to check hours...
when I started looking at these I noticed cabelas sold them...
Did you look around for a yahama owners website?? seems there might be one with a generator board... I'd look but kids give me little web time...
I've gotten some marine electronics replaced simply by posting on the right board that I new a rep watched... saved $$$$ over the years...

 

[JimPghPA]

I am not saying that this is the problem, but back in 1992 a company I worked for pruchased a new Cub Cadet. That thing drank the oil. They had it looked at and fixed under warranty. When they got it back there was a note that the problem was that when it was built someone did not put rings on the piston.

 

[JimPghPA]

So the problem may be that the engine was assembled by a human and missing something like a piston ring or two, or a valve seal, or something, or maybe not:

This is something like fourth hand info, but years ago there was a story about some new Cadillac engines that drank oil. The story goes that those engines were the first ever built at GM by robots. And because robots also installed the rings on the pistons (again a first time) the gap in those rings were ALL perfectly aligned. (Some pistons do not have the little pin for the ring gap). And in the past when humans put the rings on the ring gaps were random and not aligned. The fix for the Cadillac engines was to have the mechanics remove all the pistons and rotate piston rings so the gaps were not aligned. A heck of a lot of work for such a simple problem.

 

[JimPghPA]

Have you got patience for another story?

This is kinda my own opinion about why GC is a good oil to slow oil consumption.

Years ago I read an article in some science magazine (I am pretty sure it was Popular Science or Popular Mechanics) about a lighter than air project, and that longer flight times were achieved by including a small percentage of a gas made with a large molecule. It said that because the small gas molecules of the light gas that gave it buoyancy actually leaked by going through the containment envelope, by including a small percentage of molecules in the initial gas charge, the large molecules got stuck in some of the passageways on the gas containment envelope, and once those molecules clogged the passageways the light gas could not escape from the passageways that were clogged.

And my opinion is that there is a parity to GC oil, in that there is information that GC oil is actually made up of something like 95 percent being a zero weight oil, and 5 percent being a very special molecule made in japan that has a viscosity of about 200. And my unproven theory is that this very high viscosity molecule being a much larger molecule than you would normally find in engine oils, can actually clog some of the passageways that the smaller molecules use to escape by the numerous seals an engine has.

Again this is just a theory, but I have used GC in our 3.4 Liter engine in our 2001 Impala, and the oil consumption went from, down one quart at 2K miles with Mobil Drive Clean 5W-30 5000, to down less that ½ a quart after 8K with GC 0W-30. And that made a believer out of me when it comes to GC having less oil consumption in an engine. It did take about 300 miles on the first fill of GC before the oil leaks became insignificant.

 

[crainholio]

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
t escape from the passageways that were clogged.

Again this is just a theory, but I have used GC in our 3.4 Liter engine in our 2001 Impala, and the oil consumption went from, down one quart at 2K miles with Mobil Drive Clean 5W-30 5000, to down less that ½ a quart after 8K with GC 0W-30. And that made a believer out of me when it comes to GC having less oil consumption in an engine. It did take about 300 miles on the first fill of GC before the oil leaks became insignificant.


Is that with the current amber-colored GC, or the original green stuff?

 

[boraticus]

That had gone through my mind. Particularly when the compression doubled once I added some oil into the cylinder.

However that would be hard to believe considering that these things are made on an assembly line and no rings on a piston should be obvious???

One would think anyway, with reasonable quality conrol.....

I did some searching for oil consumption issues with this generator and didn't come up with too much.



Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
I am not saying that this is the problem, but back in 1992 a company I worked for pruchased a new Cub Cadet. That thing drank the oil. They had it looked at and fixed under warranty. When they got it back there was a note that the problem was that when it was built someone did not put rings on the piston.