Using A Good Filter on a Short OCI

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,094
Location
Colorado
I've been lurking around for months trying to learn about oil, and making my truck run as long as possible.

I often see statements such as this:

"For a 5k run, I would use either the Purolator classic or Purolator PureOne. No reason to use a more expensive filter.
"
I don't understand the logic to using a cheaper filter for a shorter OCI. Isn't the goal to filter as well as possible, no matter what the OCI? Why wouldn't one want to use a synthetic media filter, rather than cellulose, for n number of miles, since the former supposedly filters better.

Maybe it is the case that the PureOnes filter as well as synthetic, but would be clogged in a long OCI? Is that what this person is saying?

For the price of a Starbucks, it seems more conservative to buy the better filter, in the off-chance that you can't change it on time - e.g. if there is a zombie apocalypse or something
smile.gif
 
For a 5k OCI, you can use a either a cheap or an expensive filter and it won't make one darn bit of difference over the life of your vehicle.
 
My thoughts exactly. Every oil change (6 months max OCI) I replace the filter. Even if it's a good, expensive filter that could go longer. Why take the chance? An extra $5 or $6 for a top of the line filter every six months is not going to kill me.
 
Maybe getting the absolute highest efficiency filter means less than we think it should. OEM filters tend to be lower efficiency than aftermarket equivalents. Yet there are those who consistently use OEM filters and get hundreds of thousands of miles out of their vehicles. It's probably important that the filter is eventually changed, but maybe it's not that critical.
 
What you're (incorrectly) assuming is that a more expensive filter means better filtration. The main advantage with the higher end filters like Fram Ultra, M1, Napa Platinum, etc isn't really that they provide better filtration. The advantage is that they have more holding capacity, allowing them to be used for a longer OCI. Using one of these filters and only running it for 5K miles would be the same as using an oil like M1EP or Amsoil SS for a 5K mile OCI....a waste of money.
 
Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
What you're (incorrectly) assuming is that a more expensive filter means better filtration. The main advantage with the higher end filters like Fram Ultra, M1, Napa Platinum, etc isn't really that they provide better filtration. The advantage is that they have more holding capacity, allowing them to be used for a longer OCI. Using one of these filters and only running it for 5K miles would be the same as using an oil like M1EP or Amsoil SS for a 5K mile OCI....a waste of money.


Right. Its the capacity that is most important. Filters actually filter better as they are used. (Up to a point) As they clog up a little they actually capture smaller particles. A decent oil filter will outlast the oil filtering through it, unless the engine has been abused and is a real sludger.

Likewise, the older oil tends to lubricate a bit better than the new oil, so long as it is not all used up. The anti-wear additives have had a chance to attach themselves (temporarily) to the cylinder walls. When i tested, the wear numbers of the last 3K of an 8K run of OEM oil was impeccable. Really miniscule. Then you change the oil and the detergents wash that anti-wear coating away for awhile until a new coating is deposited. I wouldn't say an extra short interval is hurtful to your truck, but its by no means optimal, either.

I'd say ange the other fluids and quit obsessing over the motor oil and the filter. 5K with regular oil is very conservative for 99.5% of all uses.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
What you're (incorrectly) assuming is that a more expensive filter means better filtration. The main advantage with the higher end filters like Fram Ultra, M1, Napa Platinum, etc isn't really that they provide better filtration. The advantage is that they have more holding capacity, allowing them to be used for a longer OCI. Using one of these filters and only running it for 5K miles would be the same as using an oil like M1EP or Amsoil SS for a 5K mile OCI....a waste of money.


Right. Its the capcity that is most important. Filters actually filter better as they are used. (Up to a point) As they clog up a little they actually capture smaller particles. Likewise, the older oil tends to lubricate better than the new oil, so long as it is not all used up. The anti-wear additives have had a chance to attach themselves (temporarily) to the cylinder walls. When i tested, the wear numbers of the last 3K of an 8K run of OEM oil was impeccable. Really miniscule. Then you change the oil and the detergents wash that anti-wear coating away for awhile until a new coating is deposited. I wouldn't say an extra short interval is hurtful to your truck, but its by no means optimal, either.

Change the other fluids and quit obsessing over the motor oil.


But it eventually gets to the point where some of the stuff trapped by the filter gets pushed out.

And I specifically remember a chemist working in motor oils saying something about wear actually increasing right after an oil change (up to maybe 1000 miles) because the ZDDP takes time to heat activate. I suppose there's no practical means to activate it before going in the engine. It would probably just coat whatever vat/tank/container it's in.
 
That is one thing I wont do,is tell someone how to spend their money,period.

If someone wants to spend money,I'm sure they've thought it over as to the money they are about to spend on oil + filter.

With that said,I plan on using either a Royal Purple oil filter or Fram Ultra with the winter oil change coming up here soon.If I choose to run it a short OCI,thats MY choice.

Oil & filter,at the end of the day,is still cheaper then a engine replacement
56.gif
 
--Change the oil filter at each OLM oil life monitor flag.

--Change only half the engine oil at each OLM flag.

--Every 3rd oil change, put in an engine flush for 5 minutes prior to changing ALL the oil.

-- Use a Dimple magnetic drain plug to pull out iron particles smaller than 30 microns the oil filter missed.

-- Use an oil filter that mixes in glass fiber (with the basic cellulose-paper) into the media.
 
I like the midgrade. PureONE, Bosch Premium, Fram TG
Driving conditions also have to be taken into account.
I dropped some 600 mile PYB and a MC822 because it turned black and had horrendous start up rattle.
Swapped it for PU @ a Denso FTF filter, problems gone.
Between Walmart prices, the 10$MIR+$5 off my next SOPUS purchase, I break even on the better filter.
 
Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
For a 5k OCI, you can use a either a cheap or an expensive filter and it won't make one darn bit of difference over the life of your vehicle.


+1. The quality of the oil you use is far more important than the filter. I use MC filters with 10K OCIs. Works very well for my engines.
 
The logic is simple. It's not necessary to run a high capacity filter on an interval that will not use that capacity.

I'm pretty sure that synthetic filters aren't as efficient in the earlier part of their life as blended filters like tough guard.
 
Glad I found this thread. I'm switching our '98 century to 5W-30 synthetic with a NAPA Gold filter. I was debating a platinum filter but it seems overkill for a 5K OCI.
 
I use low/medium cost filters: OCOD, Motorcraft, Purolator classic and P1 and house brands for up to 14-15k or 1 year in my 350+k miles 1994 LS400 without any problem.

Of the 2 filters: air and oil, air filter is more importance and I only use high quality OEM filter.
 
Frequent filter changes are no more helpful than frequnet lube changes.

On a healthy piece of equipment, changing lube and filters often is a waste, and there is TONS of data to show that there is no tangible benefit in terms of wear reduction. To the contrary, wear actually escalates right after an O/FCI and then continues to drop as the lube and filter mature.

Yes, there is a pratical limit; you cannot run a filter and lube forever in a "normal" system. But they can go WELL past what most folks think. Whereas the typical "3 month, 3k mile" is still adhered to by many, the reality is that many lubes and filters can easily go 3x-5x further than that, if the equipment is in good shape.

So to the topic of a "cheap" filter, I'd have to ask we do a clear job of defining what "cheap" means. I would not ever use a "cheap" filter from unknown origin, with shoddy quality indicators and poor construciton. But I'd use any decent brand name base line filter for longer than most BITOGers would ever care to dream of. I ran a Puro Classic for 10k miles, and got a stellar UOA. I just finished up a 15k mile run on a standard MC FL400S; UOA data pending. I've used the OCOD for 5-7k miles with no issues whatsoever.

Jim's preliminary info regarding dP bypass events indicates that filters rarely ever plug up and blind off; it just doesn't happen with any regularity whatsoever. This is an over-rated topic and one not to be feared. Therefore capacity isn't the issue most folks think it to be.

Any decent brand name base line filter is just fine for a typical OCI and beyond. If you anticipate greatly extended OCIs and the expecation of heavy contamiantion, then a high capaicty fitler (FU, Napa Plat, etc) would suffice.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: FetchFar
The filters out there that mix in glass fibers into a cellulose paper based media have better multipass efficiencies with slightly smaller particles, and they can hold more dirt before they completely clog up. However, remember filters miss particles in the 1 to 20 micron range, like sand or iron that can wear an engine. The only filter i know of that is specially built to grab stuff all the way down to 2 microns is the www.microgreenfilter.com filter.


Do you have any affiliation with microgreen? I've seen that you've posted their direct link on more than one occasion, but you're not a paying sponser on BITOG. I think that violates the TOU, as you need to be a paying sponser to post such links.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top