why people hate ford?

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Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I've bought four Fords, and four Jaguars while Ford owned the company, so I've been a pretty good customer.

But, they no longer make anything I want to buy. Their mainstream cars seem clearly outclassed by GM.


Where are the mainstream Fords outclassed by GM?

Fiesta - Spark
Fiesta - Sonic
Focus - Cruze
Fusion - Malibu
Taurus - Impala
Mustang - Camaro
Escape - Equinox
Edge - Equinox
Flex - Traverse
Explorer - Traverse
Expedition/EL - Tahoe/Suburban
F-Series - Silverado

In the majority of those matchups, the Ford offering pretty clearly outclasses the GM counterpart. I'm interested to hear why you have the opposite impression.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I've bought four Fords, and four Jaguars while Ford owned the company, so I've been a pretty good customer.

But, they no longer make anything I want to buy. Their mainstream cars seem clearly outclassed by GM.


Where are the mainstream Fords outclassed by GM?

Fiesta - Spark
Fiesta - Sonic
Focus - Cruze
Fusion - Malibu
Taurus - Impala
Mustang - Camaro
Escape - Equinox
Edge - Equinox
Flex - Traverse
Explorer - Traverse
Expedition/EL - Tahoe/Suburban
F-Series - Silverado

In the majority of those matchups, the Ford offering pretty clearly outclasses the GM counterpart. I'm interested to hear why you have the opposite impression.


Please check who you are quoting. I never said any such thing. The comments you are challenging were made by Win.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I must correct myself. For DECADES Ford has published a strict guideline that stated specifically that their trucks could not be used as stationary power sources. Our trucks sit in the driveway running either 1500 or 1750 rpm, this voids their warranty from Ford.

Does that apply to the diesels, too? As I recall, at least sometime in the recent past they had PTO provisions.


Seriously, it has been specifically mentioned in Ford manuals and other sources. They are simply afraid of liability. Stationary operation has a few pitfalls that can have disastrous consequences.

Note there is a third world version of our equipment with a diesel engine. But then you need an oil fired heater because the diesel isn't loaded enough during stationary operation to generate the heat we would normally scavenge from the coolant. A whole 'nother layer of complex parts and no benefit to us here. Great in El Salvador or something...
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I've bought four Fords, and four Jaguars while Ford owned the company, so I've been a pretty good customer.

But, they no longer make anything I want to buy. Their mainstream cars seem clearly outclassed by GM.


Where are the mainstream Fords outclassed by GM?

Fiesta - Spark
Fiesta - Sonic
Focus - Cruze
Fusion - Malibu
Taurus - Impala
Mustang - Camaro
Escape - Equinox
Edge - Equinox
Flex - Traverse
Explorer - Traverse
Expedition/EL - Tahoe/Suburban
F-Series - Silverado

In the majority of those matchups, the Ford offering pretty clearly outclasses the GM counterpart. I'm interested to hear why you have the opposite impression.


That looks like like an who's uglier list.
IMHO Neither Ford or Chevy has built anything really decent looking in 40 years except for the later model Corvettes and may be the Camero.
The rest is as ugly as sin itself.
 
I had an '89 Mustang that had a couple problems. First problem was fifth gear would whine when it was cold (below 45 degrees or so). It would whine until everything warmed up and then it was fine. Finally after the third time they replaced the gear the dealership told me that ford had discovered that a bunch of gears hadn't been manufactured to specs. The third time was the charm, but it was a PITA to have to keep going back.
The second problem and the one that turned me off from ever dealing with Ford again was when the paint started peeling off the roof of the car starting on the leading edge. It started peeling two weeks after the one year paint warranty expired. This was the same time that Ford was having major problems with paint on their trucks and had a recall on the paint. What was strange is that it was only the Medium Shadow Blue on the Mustangs that was doing it. I was in west-central Missouri at the time and I'd seen at least a dozen of the same color Mustangs peeling in the same manner. The dealer wouldn't budge and corporate gave me the run around for a few months even though I'd showed them pictures of numerous blue Mustangs doing the same thing. In the end they finally acknowledged they did have a problem with that color paint sticking to the primer, but would only pay for 50% of a paint job. So it saved Ford a few hundred dollars, but, in my case, cost them future business.
 
Originally Posted By: kmcavin
I had an '89 Mustang that had a couple problems. First problem was fifth gear would whine when it was cold (below 45 degrees or so). It would whine until everything warmed up and then it was fine. Finally after the third time they replaced the gear the dealership told me that ford had discovered that a bunch of gears hadn't been manufactured to specs. The third time was the charm, but it was a PITA to have to keep going back.
The second problem and the one that turned me off from ever dealing with Ford again was when the paint started peeling off the roof of the car starting on the leading edge. It started peeling two weeks after the one year paint warranty expired. This was the same time that Ford was having major problems with paint on their trucks and had a recall on the paint. What was strange is that it was only the Medium Shadow Blue on the Mustangs that was doing it. I was in west-central Missouri at the time and I'd seen at least a dozen of the same color Mustangs peeling in the same manner. The dealer wouldn't budge and corporate gave me the run around for a few months even though I'd showed them pictures of numerous blue Mustangs doing the same thing. In the end they finally acknowledged they did have a problem with that color paint sticking to the primer, but would only pay for 50% of a paint job. So it saved Ford a few hundred dollars, but, in my case, cost them future business.


Weird. One of my old bosses had an F-150 repainted by Ford for free around that same time. I guess customer service varied a bit on that one.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT

Where are the mainstream Fords outclassed by GM?
In the majority of those matchups, the Ford offering pretty clearly outclasses the GM counterpart. I'm interested to hear why you have the opposite impression.


Well, many many thousands of buyers have a different impression because they did not buy a Ford.

Not all of us feel that Ford simply "outclasses" the competition.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
In the majority of those matchups, the Ford offering pretty clearly outclasses the GM counterpart.


I suppose that "pretty clearly" depends on what you like in a vehicle, and what you want in a vehicle. Vehicles on both sides of the hyphens above have pros and cons. To someone who owns three Fords, I'm sure the Ford products DO look pretty good. To someone else, they may not.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT

Where are the mainstream Fords outclassed by GM?
In the majority of those matchups, the Ford offering pretty clearly outclasses the GM counterpart. I'm interested to hear why you have the opposite impression.


Well, many many thousands of buyers have a different impression because they did not buy a Ford.

Not all of us feel that Ford simply "outclasses" the competition.


I would have to agree. I'm not a Ford or Chevy guy, I tend to like models from both. About half of those matchups I prefer the GM offering.

GM wins all of these IMO:

Focus - Cruze
Taurus - Impala
Edge - Equinox
Flex - Traverse
Expedition - Tahoe
F-Series - Silverado
 
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Escape - Equinox


Although they're similarly-sized vehicles, they appeal to different audiences. The Equinox drives like a much larger vehicle than it is. There are pros and cons to that. For example, it's as quiet as a bank vault and has good road isolation. But the price you pay for that is a sloppier feel to turn-in and general handling. It's not athletic. The Escape, by comparison, feels smaller and tighter inside, and certainly handles better than the Equinox (at least that's my experience).

Either one will "clearly" outclass the other, but to different people. To someone looking for a tight-handling SUV that drives really well, the Escape will clearly outlcass the Equinox. To someone looking for lots of interior room and a comfortable ride with great isolation, the Equinox will clearly outclass the Escape. It simply depends on what one wants to have in a vehicle.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Either one will "clearly" outclass the other, but to different people. To someone looking for a tight-handling SUV that drives really well, the Escape will clearly outlcass the Equinox. To someone looking for lots of interior room and a comfortable ride with great isolation, the Equinox will clearly outclass the Escape. It simply depends on what one wants to have in a vehicle.


Exactly!
To some a Prius will outclass a 911 and vice versa, a stripped down econobox will outclass a luxury vehicle and vice versa, a manual will outclass an automatic and vice versa. We can go on and on like that forever.
That is why, thank goodness, we have so many vehicle brands and types. Just imagine what kind of cars would be available if they were measure only by one metric. I would dread that reality.
 
I personally hate fords because all five I owned between model years 1968 and 1989 were a lemons ....... with special focus on engine and electrical problems despite flawless maintenance.

Ford just cannot ever get it right. Their direct injection eco boost engines are having deposit problems due to faulty design.

The Fusion is made in mexico by the way ..... camry is #1 domestic content car.

As consumer reports found, the Fusion's EPA mileage cannot be duplicated in the real world.

Repairs with ford: CONSTANT
Switched to Toyota/Lexus in 1991 ... since then, total family miles (wife & grown kids now) over 1.5 million ....... not a one of us has had a single warranty claim or repair bill other than flawless maintenance, tires, batteries and brakes.

The small displacement DI Turbos are a disaster. The titanium gets worse gas mileage and has slower acceleration the Camry V6.
 
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I hate my Ford Focus....and because of it's issues I can't see myself wanting to give my money to Ford ever again. Perhaps not logical, but that is how I see it. They didn't sell me a car that corresponded with it's advertising. So....I don't trust them anymore. I don't care for the vast majority of GM's cars though....except the 'vette and the Suburban. My future purchase will be based on reliability, economy, and overall usefulness.
 
What hasn't been mentioned is servicing dealer, they can be just as good or bad as the automobiles mentioned, and can influence the preception of the car.

In my situation my local Ford dealer happens to be a very good friend of mine, I don't know if the friendship plays a role in my service or not, but I have had nothing but excellent Fords for the last 25 years. If I have had anything in for a fix they give me a car/truck to drive, no charge. If there isn't anything available to drive they give me one off the used lot.

Yhe one thing I have noticed over the years raising my three kids is one was bought a Honda, used of course, and the other two have Fords. When a repair was needed, and they all have needed them at one time or another, the Honda repair parts always cost more.
Whether it was a windshield, starter, alternator, or radiator the Honda parts were always more. Paying more doesn't make them any better,if they failed they failed, and quite honestly it has never made any sense since the Honda was and still built right here in Ohio.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Well, many many thousands of buyers have a different impression because they did not buy a Ford.

Not all of us feel that Ford simply "outclasses" the competition.

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I suppose that "pretty clearly" depends on what you like in a vehicle, and what you want in a vehicle. Vehicles on both sides of the hyphens above have pros and cons. To someone who owns three Fords, I'm sure the Ford products DO look pretty good. To someone else, they may not.


In a good percentage of those classes, Ford is matching and/or beating the Chevrolet counterpart in sales with significantly higher average transaction prices, especially true in the case of the Fusion/Malibu, Focus/Cruze, Fiesta/Sonic, and Escape/Equinox. I'm not sure how you interpret "outclassing", but if sales are comparable (or in Ford's favor) yet customers are paying ~$1.5K-$3K more for the Ford counterpart on average, the market must agree that Ford has GM outclassed in those segments.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-31...ding-camry.html
 
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
What hasn't been mentioned is servicing dealer, they can be just as good or bad as the automobiles mentioned, and can influence the preception of the car.

In my situation my local Ford dealer happens to be a very good friend of mine, I don't know if the friendship plays a role in my service or not, but I have had nothing but excellent Fords for the last 25 years. If I have had anything in for a fix they give me a car/truck to drive, no charge. If there isn't anything available to drive they give me one off the used lot.

Yhe one thing I have noticed over the years raising my three kids is one was bought a Honda, used of course, and the other two have Fords. When a repair was needed, and they all have needed them at one time or another, the Honda repair parts always cost more.
Whether it was a windshield, starter, alternator, or radiator the Honda parts were always more. Paying more doesn't make them any better,if they failed they failed, and quite honestly it has never made any sense since the Honda was and still built right here in Ohio.


I think you'll find good dealers and bad dealers for every brand. Your experience will be totally dealer independent.

Also, when you get to know people at the dealer it's amazing how your experience can be completely transformed. I had this experience at a Volvo dealer in PA. My mom actually knew the service manager and always treated her very well. I was shocked when I showed up at the dealer and he was very dismissive and not willing to help me at all. After a mere mention of my mothers name and suddenly my problem is getting resolved and I have a free loaner for the day.

Now I don't know if this is why you are receiving good service, but knowing someone at the dealer certainly doesn't hurt.
 
Originally Posted By: kmcavin
I had an '89 Mustang that had a couple problems. First problem was fifth gear would whine when it was cold (below 45 degrees or so). It would whine until everything warmed up and then it was fine. Finally after the third time they replaced the gear the dealership told me that ford had discovered that a bunch of gears hadn't been manufactured to specs. The third time was the charm, but it was a PITA to have to keep going back.


The T-5 transmission was manufactured by Borg-Warner and was not exclusive to Ford. GM used it in the S-series trucks as well as the F-bodies. So I highly doubt Ford had discovered an issue with gears, but rather BW had, if that was the case.

The major issue with the T-5 was that 5th was on its own shaft that was only supported by a small boss on the case of the transmission. It was not designed to take a great deal of load. High load (WOT for example) in 5th gear would cause the shaft to wear the boss it was mounted in, making the assembly for 5th loose and cause vibration and whine.

It was however, a lightweight and relatively durable gearbox that has stood-up to many a supercharged 5.0L.
 
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