I don't know why I don't post more often lol, there is always a post that answers my questions I guess!? But I do have a question I think I might just have to ask. I have some Oil that I acquired a while back here in St. Louis, and it's called Venom racing oil. It is manufactured by Hicks oil, out of Illinois. They claim that this 15w40 has 3,000 ppm of zinc. Now I know that's a crazy number, but what if you add it in as a zinc additive to a standard 800 ppm oil to raise that number from 1,200 to 1,500 ppm of Zddp? Considering the fact I have no cats on the exhaust. I wonder if it just might be crazy enough to work?? Lol
Adding race oil for more zddp?
- Thread starter HighMileCummins
- Start date
- Status
There must be a reason to raise your ZDDP level. What problems are you having with your existing oil and what ppm of ZDDP do you need to resolve the problem you are having.
If you can answer that someone may be able to help.
eddie
If you can answer that someone may be able to help.
eddie
Last edited:
You can always just buy Amsoil z-rod.. It has a large amount of Zinc.
Originally Posted By: EddieCairns
There must be a reason to raise your ZDDP level. What problems are you having with your existing oil and what ppm of ZDDP do you need to resolve the problem you are having.
If you can answer that someone may be able to help.
eddie
If it's same as engine in signature it has a flat tappet camshaft, which needs a high level of zinc to keep from wiping out the lobes
There must be a reason to raise your ZDDP level. What problems are you having with your existing oil and what ppm of ZDDP do you need to resolve the problem you are having.
If you can answer that someone may be able to help.
eddie
If it's same as engine in signature it has a flat tappet camshaft, which needs a high level of zinc to keep from wiping out the lobes
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
Originally Posted By: EddieCairns
There must be a reason to raise your ZDDP level. What problems are you having with your existing oil and what ppm of ZDDP do you need to resolve the problem you are having.
If you can answer that someone may be able to help.
eddie
If it's same as engine in signature it has a flat tappet camshaft, which needs a high level of zinc to keep from wiping out the lobes
You nailed it! I know I can just run Brad Penn, Amsoil, or my favorite Schaeffers! But I was just wondering what the outcome would be if you did this? This post is just for fun, and curiosity! I actually plan on running YB Pennzoil 10w40 with the Schaeffer's #132 and see how it goes?
Originally Posted By: EddieCairns
There must be a reason to raise your ZDDP level. What problems are you having with your existing oil and what ppm of ZDDP do you need to resolve the problem you are having.
If you can answer that someone may be able to help.
eddie
If it's same as engine in signature it has a flat tappet camshaft, which needs a high level of zinc to keep from wiping out the lobes
You nailed it! I know I can just run Brad Penn, Amsoil, or my favorite Schaeffers! But I was just wondering what the outcome would be if you did this? This post is just for fun, and curiosity! I actually plan on running YB Pennzoil 10w40 with the Schaeffer's #132 and see how it goes?
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
Originally Posted By: EddieCairns
There must be a reason to raise your ZDDP level. What problems are you having with your existing oil and what ppm of ZDDP do you need to resolve the problem you are having.
If you can answer that someone may be able to help.
eddie
If it's same as engine in signature it has a flat tappet camshaft, which needs a high level of zinc to keep from wiping out the lobes
Unless he is running higher lift and heavy springs, extra zinc is not needed. Once the cam is broke in the chances of wiping a lobe are pretty much down to quality of the cam hardening as long as a quality lube is used. OP if you are worried Rotella will have more than enough zinc to protect that cam.
Originally Posted By: EddieCairns
There must be a reason to raise your ZDDP level. What problems are you having with your existing oil and what ppm of ZDDP do you need to resolve the problem you are having.
If you can answer that someone may be able to help.
eddie
If it's same as engine in signature it has a flat tappet camshaft, which needs a high level of zinc to keep from wiping out the lobes
Unless he is running higher lift and heavy springs, extra zinc is not needed. Once the cam is broke in the chances of wiping a lobe are pretty much down to quality of the cam hardening as long as a quality lube is used. OP if you are worried Rotella will have more than enough zinc to protect that cam.
Last edited:
Yes, You can add that oil in your engine and not hurt a thing. Might as well use it or sell it.
Originally Posted By: Brent_G
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
Originally Posted By: EddieCairns
There must be a reason to raise your ZDDP level. What problems are you having with your existing oil and what ppm of ZDDP do you need to resolve the problem you are having.
If you can answer that someone may be able to help.
eddie
If it's same as engine in signature it has a flat tappet camshaft, which needs a high level of zinc to keep from wiping out the lobes
Unless he is running higher lift and heavy springs, extra zinc is not needed. Once the cam is broke in the chances of wiping a lobe are pretty much down to quality of the cam hardening as long as a quality lube is used. OP if you are worried Rotella will have more than enough zinc to protect that cam.
Good point, as of right now it's a very mild stock cam and springs. So I think I'm good for now! Maybe I'll do a little experimenting, we'll see? I do plan on changing the cam to raise my low end up a bit, but that's another post. Now on the topic of zinc, has there been any word on how moly, antimony, boron ect. play a role in cam wear without the necessary zinc levels??
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
Originally Posted By: EddieCairns
There must be a reason to raise your ZDDP level. What problems are you having with your existing oil and what ppm of ZDDP do you need to resolve the problem you are having.
If you can answer that someone may be able to help.
eddie
If it's same as engine in signature it has a flat tappet camshaft, which needs a high level of zinc to keep from wiping out the lobes
Unless he is running higher lift and heavy springs, extra zinc is not needed. Once the cam is broke in the chances of wiping a lobe are pretty much down to quality of the cam hardening as long as a quality lube is used. OP if you are worried Rotella will have more than enough zinc to protect that cam.
Good point, as of right now it's a very mild stock cam and springs. So I think I'm good for now! Maybe I'll do a little experimenting, we'll see? I do plan on changing the cam to raise my low end up a bit, but that's another post. Now on the topic of zinc, has there been any word on how moly, antimony, boron ect. play a role in cam wear without the necessary zinc levels??
Right you can use it to bump up the phosphorus level, but I wouldn't go higher than 1,200 ppm.
Of course there are other blending factors to consider such as the resulting HTHS viscosity, VI and TBN level of the oil.
Of course there are other blending factors to consider such as the resulting HTHS viscosity, VI and TBN level of the oil.
Crazy enough to work how?
Originally Posted By: HighMileCummins
I don't know why I don't post more often lol, there is always a post that answers my questions I guess!? But I do have a question I think I might just have to ask. I have some Oil that I acquired a while back here in St. Louis, and it's called Venom racing oil. It is manufactured by Hicks oil, out of Illinois. They claim that this 15w40 has 3,000 ppm of zinc. Now I know that's a crazy number, but what if you add it in as a zinc additive to a standard 800 ppm oil to raise that number from 1,200 to 1,500 ppm of Zddp? Considering the fact I have no cats on the exhaust. I wonder if it just might be crazy enough to work?? Lol
Originally Posted By: HighMileCummins
I don't know why I don't post more often lol, there is always a post that answers my questions I guess!? But I do have a question I think I might just have to ask. I have some Oil that I acquired a while back here in St. Louis, and it's called Venom racing oil. It is manufactured by Hicks oil, out of Illinois. They claim that this 15w40 has 3,000 ppm of zinc. Now I know that's a crazy number, but what if you add it in as a zinc additive to a standard 800 ppm oil to raise that number from 1,200 to 1,500 ppm of Zddp? Considering the fact I have no cats on the exhaust. I wonder if it just might be crazy enough to work?? Lol
How big is your sump and what are you currently running? I think regardless using one quart per fill willing bump whatever you're running up a little, possibly two quarts on a large sump. You could probably run it straight in your signature vehicle, but I wouldn't want to.
I just had a uoa done on my Harley running vr1 synthetic 1259 ppm phosphorus 1500 ppm zinc it was the 20w50
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Crazy enough to work how?
Originally Posted By: HighMileCummins
I don't know why I don't post more often lol, there is always a post that answers my questions I guess!? But I do have a question I think I might just have to ask. I have some Oil that I acquired a while back here in St. Louis, and it's called Venom racing oil. It is manufactured by Hicks oil, out of Illinois. They claim that this 15w40 has 3,000 ppm of zinc. Now I know that's a crazy number, but what if you add it in as a zinc additive to a standard 800 ppm oil to raise that number from 1,200 to 1,500 ppm of Zddp? Considering the fact I have no cats on the exhaust. I wonder if it just might be crazy enough to work?? Lol
Lol I thought someone would say that. I just said that to be funny, think of it with a "mad scientist" laugh behind it. I know... Not so funny. But anyways, thanks everyone for your replies! And to a few that commented on the additives, that's about what I was going for (in theory) to be between 1,200-1,500 ppm of zinc.
Crazy enough to work how?
Originally Posted By: HighMileCummins
I don't know why I don't post more often lol, there is always a post that answers my questions I guess!? But I do have a question I think I might just have to ask. I have some Oil that I acquired a while back here in St. Louis, and it's called Venom racing oil. It is manufactured by Hicks oil, out of Illinois. They claim that this 15w40 has 3,000 ppm of zinc. Now I know that's a crazy number, but what if you add it in as a zinc additive to a standard 800 ppm oil to raise that number from 1,200 to 1,500 ppm of Zddp? Considering the fact I have no cats on the exhaust. I wonder if it just might be crazy enough to work?? Lol
Lol I thought someone would say that. I just said that to be funny, think of it with a "mad scientist" laugh behind it. I know... Not so funny. But anyways, thanks everyone for your replies! And to a few that commented on the additives, that's about what I was going for (in theory) to be between 1,200-1,500 ppm of zinc.
Oh and it's a 5qt sump, I acquired the truck about 3,000 miles ago. They had fresh oil in it, but I didn't know what it was? So this is its first oil change in my care. But keep in mind this discussion is more for interest in what if? I know I can just pick up any good proven oil.
Originally Posted By: Roadkingnc
I just had a uoa done on my Harley running vr1 synthetic 1259 ppm phosphorus 1500 ppm zinc it was the 20w50
I was just going to suggest VR1.
I just had a uoa done on my Harley running vr1 synthetic 1259 ppm phosphorus 1500 ppm zinc it was the 20w50
I was just going to suggest VR1.
I've heard VR1 is good stuff! And it sounds like it has some robust additives as well.
I would add about half a quart to your 4.5 quarts of regular oil and it should freshen that brew up nicely.
Mixing it with another OTS oil should be no problem. It's the same as using RL break-in supplement to boost ZDDP levels. Mix away, but I'd second the suggestion to not go overboard.
I believe that Antimony and Boron are AW additives that work at lower temperatures than ZDDP. They will provide metal protection after a cold start until the ZDDP gets to the activation temperature, then the ZDDP will take over and plate the metal surfaces. Moly is a friction modifier, and it helps with fuel economy.
I believe that Antimony and Boron are AW additives that work at lower temperatures than ZDDP. They will provide metal protection after a cold start until the ZDDP gets to the activation temperature, then the ZDDP will take over and plate the metal surfaces. Moly is a friction modifier, and it helps with fuel economy.
I always advise against mixing two oils together - you have no way to predict the way detergent and additives will interact in your oil system. The viscosity will fall somewhere between the two parts, but certain detergents have a way of pulling other additives out of solution if the additive systems are not designed to be mixed.
The zinc is just an effective counter-ion to stabilize the cross-linked phosphorous anti-wear film - and antimony, ammonium, molybdenum can also be effective at this (though MoDTP tends to decompose into MoS2). Also worth noting is that calcium and magnesium detergents have been shown to destabilize the anti-wear film - so I would not recommend an HD engine oil if you decide to tighten up those springs. A typical HD engine oil has higher phosphorous, but over twice the detergents you actually need.
If you want a high-zddp/low detergent oil built for that application, there are plenty of great oils on the market: Champion (full disclosure, I'm their chief chemist), Amsoil, Valvoline, Purple, Red Line, etc.
The zinc is just an effective counter-ion to stabilize the cross-linked phosphorous anti-wear film - and antimony, ammonium, molybdenum can also be effective at this (though MoDTP tends to decompose into MoS2). Also worth noting is that calcium and magnesium detergents have been shown to destabilize the anti-wear film - so I would not recommend an HD engine oil if you decide to tighten up those springs. A typical HD engine oil has higher phosphorous, but over twice the detergents you actually need.
If you want a high-zddp/low detergent oil built for that application, there are plenty of great oils on the market: Champion (full disclosure, I'm their chief chemist), Amsoil, Valvoline, Purple, Red Line, etc.
- Status
Similar threads
