VSA on/off driving experience

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This is specifically about my new 2013 Accord Touring V6 with auto transmission. I have never driven a vehicle with vsa so pardon my ignorance if there is.

With VSA ‘On’ versus ‘Off’ I feel there is a difference in the way the car drives. It drives a bit better with vsa off. Even when accelerating on a straight dry road, meaning there is really no vsa activity going on, and anyway if there was any then the vsa light on the dash would come on temporarily, which it has never. Tires are good (Mich MXV4) and pressure good in all 4 too.

The differences are subtle but noticeable. When vsa is off the shifts from 1->2->3 are more like they should be otherwise with vsa on they seem unrealistic(too early?) and stretchy. Also, with vsa off there’s a little bit better acceleration and response across the power band whether its from a stop, slow speed, or highway passing.

So what’s the real deal with vsa ? Is this how its supposed to work ? I would expect it to be sitting quiet and not interfere with anything until it detects slip or instability, but apparently not in my experience. Anyone have the same experience or feel something else is wrong ?
 
Can't trust the butt dyno, really.

It is very possible that VSA does make small adjustments during normal driving to reduce torque steer or whatever.
 
As every mfgr has different software the effects of a stability/traction management system can vary dramatically.

In my car the ESP button on the dash has a dramatic effect on several parameters. I have even heard of cars that remap the throttle, etc.
 
All I know is I always keep it on. It's saved me from wrecking my mother's car twice (once on a slushy night and once on a gravel road), and in my car I just feel better in emergency situations.
 
I used to drive my 07 Civic Si with the VSA OFF at all times because it was modified and the extra power would cause the wheels to spin easy and thus VSA would step in and apply the BRAKES when I'm trying to accelerate.

I'd only have it on during bad weather where the extra safety is needed.
 
VSA can be useful on wet surface. Many late model S2000 (after 2005) owners turn off VSA in summer and only turn it on when we have some rainy days in winter.
 
I leave mine on all the time in Sonata. My car choices were limited when I bought it (2007) as VSC was on my mandatory list. I probably would not have wrecked my corolla if it had that. Accidents/people texting and driving/things falling off a truck/tire debris don't only happen when it rains or snows. Sonata has a button to disable but defaults to ON at every start up for that reason. Sequoia you need to unplug a sensor or lock the center differential to disable it and that defaults to on also. The only times I had issues with it was on a long gravel washboard road and some snow with poor plowing. Sometimes you need to keep the throttle up with tires spinning to keep moving.

Some racing leagues I think it is mandatory to disable as not everybody has it. Those that do often had an advantage because of car helping with individual brakes at the limit.

Tirerack had one test and showed some interesting info. Most VSC's/traction control limit you to about 10% wheel spin/ Many snow tires get their max grip up to about 35% wheel spin iirc which is also why owners manuals explain when you might need to turn off to get unstuck.

ESC videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSOAk7alUKE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE94qcoYYUQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIiwPta24hs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCRLKRluk1w&list=TLWBQAeOUCwXJSMhClONakitQtWcQ0VYKx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQq-4KYBxsI
 
The VSA uses wheel speed (ABS) sensors, a yaw sensor, G load sensor, throttle position sensor, and steering angle sensor. Based on the combination of measurements they constantly return, a complex algorithm can tell if the car is in an oversteer or understeer situation or has simply lost traction; to correct one of these conditions it will reduce throttle and individually apply brakes to appropriate wheel(s). The only way it could make a difference in a straight line is if you lose traction with the front wheels and at that point you would temporarily see a yellow blinking light on the instrument panel. If you don't see the light, it isn't doing anything at the moment.


HTSS_TR: I leave my VSA on almost all of the time, only turning it off on the rare occasion I want the rear end to step out more than the 8-12 inches VSA allows or when I'm at the track (where I actually feel safer than on public roads with unknown surface conditions and less skilled drivers coming and going from different directions). I feel it's there for a reason and I want to maximize the chance me and my car are unscathed with all of the idiots out there (me occasionally being one).
 
I enjoy playing with VSA off on snow or ice with our vehicles. Because they're AWD, it feels like they accelerate quicker with VSA (and thusly traction control) off compared with VSA being on. It's fun to hear tires slipping but feel a strong shove in the back at the same time as you surge forward.

I've never thought try it "off" on dry pavement.
 
I always turn the VSA off in my SI.
It's just part of my startup routine.
I guess I am old school and I just want to drive my car, not let it drive me. I don't like how everything thesedays is a driving nanny. If people actually were properly trained to drive in all conditions, you wouldn't need all this silly wizardry..
 
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
I always turn the VSA off in my SI.
It's just part of my startup routine.
I guess I am old school and I just want to drive my car, not let it drive me. I don't like how everything thesedays is a driving nanny. If people actually were properly trained to drive in all conditions, you wouldn't need all this silly wizardry..

I knew someone was going to say something naive like that. First I'll say that Honda's VSA is a lot less intrusive than that of other companies, like VW for example, so the car isn't really driving you. Second, I've had instruction from a semi-pro driver, spend a good deal of time on the track, and am constantly cognizant of my driving technique and making sure it's good, yet I leave my VSA on most of the time. Does that mean I'm not trained to handle my vehicle? Hardly. Does that mean that the need for an evasive maneuver around another car that involves gravel on the shoulder can't go wrong for the best 'properly-trained' drivers? No, and very naive to think so. You are right that there is no substitute for skill but hubris doesn't make one an all-conquering stud driver, either.
 
It all depends on the car; with my MS3 I leave the nannies on for HPDEs when it is raining. My Club Sport is thankfully free of any form of stability/traction control, and as a result it is my favorite track toy.
 
Originally Posted By: gofast182
..First I'll say that Honda's VSA is a lot less intrusive than that of other companies..


And really the whole idea of this thread was just to find out if in general vsa is indeed intrusive even in normal driving conditions also or not, that is conditions when the vsa engaged light has not even come on the dash. Sounds like it is.
 
Originally Posted By: youdontwannaknow
Originally Posted By: gofast182
..First I'll say that Honda's VSA is a lot less intrusive than that of other companies..


And really the whole idea of this thread was just to find out if in general vsa is indeed intrusive even in normal driving conditions also or not, that is conditions when the vsa engaged light has not even come on the dash. Sounds like it is.

The system is on monitoring the parameters I listed however unless you see the light blink on, it has not intervened in your drive.
 
Originally Posted By: gofast182
The system is on monitoring the parameters I listed however unless you see the light blink on, it has not intervened in your drive.


Do you know for a fact that something like throttle mapping is not different when not in VSA? I'm not saying that the VSA software itself would change it, but there may be a different "table" that the computer goes to if the VSA system is disabled.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: gofast182
The system is on monitoring the parameters I listed however unless you see the light blink on, it has not intervened in your drive.


Do you know for a fact that something like throttle mapping is not different when not in VSA? I'm not saying that the VSA software itself would change it, but there may be a different "table" that the computer goes to if the VSA system is disabled.

As a point of fact, I do not know that, however my understanding of the system doesn't include different on/off tables, rather the result of the constant calculations producing YES/NO, IF YES retard throttle and timing by W% and Xmsec per unit of magnitude calculated and apply Y brake for Zmsec based on type of event.
 
I don't know why people like driving with that stuff off on the street. Do you have a lot of training and race experience that enables you to react quicker than average and control a car under extreme circumstances? Most people would answer no.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
I don't know why people like driving with that stuff off on the street. Do you have a lot of training and race experience that enables you to react quicker than average and control a car under extreme circumstances? Most people would answer no.

That's because they know they can't and many who would answer yes can't really, either. These systems are clocking data in and out at 150-180MHz which is nanosecond territory and brake actuation happens in ~100-200 miliseconds so let's round the whole process way up and say it takes 400mS to engage the system, the avg. human reaction time is about 700mS. So while I believe everyone should be taught proper car control absent any technology, you'd be hard-pressed to find a human being who is actually faster than it.
 
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I leave the DSC on for any regular driving in the M5. It is rather lenient in terms of how much wheelspin it will allow before reeling in the throttle, however if you do a spirited 1->2 it will sometimes make the car fall on its face by pulling the throttle back because it otherwise lights the tires up. You can engage it on the 2-3 shift easily enough too, but it is far less intrusive with just a bit of throttle-back and the blinking light.

The interesting "interventions" are when it detects over-steer and won't let you turn the wheel any further during a turn (kicking out the rear, if you try it). Kinda startled me the first time it did it.

With it off the car feels the same unless you accelerate aggressively or incite wheelspin. You can also kick the rear-end out and of course it does nothing. ABS however still works with the DSC off.

I also have a "sport" button which heavies the steering and increases the throttle response significantly, making you feel like you are driving an on/off switch.

IMHO, the only reason to turn it off is to "have fun". I don't see a point in turning it off during regular driving where the added safeties may end up being useful.
 
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