Best Cleaning Cycle?

[sl1driver]

OK guys, I have a question about cleaning using MMO. I did an OC a few weeks ago in my Saturn with 3 qts of PYB and 1 qt of MMO. The car currently has a bit over 148K miles on it. I have driven about 750 miles on this fill, most of it highway driving. I keep checking the oil and it has darkened a little bit but is still a rather transparent, red-ish (from the MMO) fluid. I had figured it would have become very dark from the deposits it was cleaning. So either it didn't do a good job of cleaning, or the engine was already pretty clean before starting this fill.

My question is, should I have varied my driving style more during the cleaning cycle, doing more "city" driving (stop and go, with constantly varying engine speed) or would that not have mattered? I have read threads about "Italian tune ups" and I did stay in lower gears longer than needed so that the engine speed would by higher at times, but I may not have done it enough.

I'm hoping to get some input from you guys so I can try to determine if the engine really is clean or if I need to do another MMO cycle with much more varied engine speeds, and longer periods of high rpm driving. I hope someone can shed some light on this. I would really rather not pull the cam cover to check it if I don't have to.

 

[gregk24]

Actually I think highway driving would be best for cleaning. Next oil change go with Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra. And keep using that to gently clean things up. Or even Pennzoil Syn Blend. I know this isnt scientific, but I have ran Pennzoil Syn Blend and Mobil 1 in the Uplander and the Pennzoil Syn Blend got darker quicker than Mobil 1, as if it has been cleaning better. Who knows for sure.

 

[sl1driver]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Actually I think highway driving would be best for cleaning. Next oil change go with Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra. And keep using that to gently clean things up. Or even Pennzoil Syn Blend. I know this isnt scientific, but I have ran Pennzoil Syn Blend and Mobil 1 in the Uplander and the Pennzoil Syn Blend got darker quicker than Mobil 1, as if it has been cleaning better. Who knows for sure.

I was using PP up to this last OC. I just assumed (yes I know what happens when you ASSume things) that, being a Saturn, the rings probably would have needed some cleaning to seat properly. Perhaps the PP was doing a good job of keeping the rings clean. I may go to an OCI with Ultra before settling in on the oil that I will use long term, although if the engine is already pretty clean, the Ultra would be overkill.

 

[dino33]

It sounds like your engine is pretty clean Sl Driver. I used MMO on my Prius and it only darkened up after a couple thousand miles as the engine is very clean. On a '91 Honda Accord, and a '95 Geo Metro within five hundred miles of using MMO and fresh oil the fluid was already very dark. If I were you I'd just keep using the Pennzoil and adding a little MMO a thousand or two miles before your next oil change. Looks like your engine still has lots of life left to it, a nice reward for keeping care of your car...

 

[Donald]

No comment on the snake oil.

 

[Rolla07]

You only put 750 miles on it...personally i would run it quite a bit longer. Likely that the engine is clean or you need to run it longer. I kinda have to agree with Donald, I wouldnt play with anything in your oil unless you have problems. I also agree to just use good oil and not worry about it. You said you use PP, which is already a good oil. Im going to try out Penn Ultra myself, might not be a bad idea for you if you can score it for a good deal. Got mine for 21$ for almost a 5 quart jug.

 

[KCJeep]

It sounds kinda like you're trying to clean an engine you don't even know is dirty. That is a high concentration of MMO. If it's not turning dark quickly with that much MMO your engine is relatively clean IMO.

My Jeep most decidely is NOT clean. Even a small dose of MMO will darken the oil quickly, usually just a couple hundred miles.

You don't have to vary your driving at all to use MMO, just drive. But it doesn't sound to me like you need it.

 

[SLCraig]

If your Saturn 1.9 is not burning any oil I would not even be worried about doing any "good", because if it is maintaining oil level the engine is in great shape already.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: sl1driver
OK guys, I have a question about cleaning using MMO. I did an OC a few weeks ago in my Saturn with 3 qts of PYB and 1 qt of MMO. The car currently has a bit over 148K miles on it. I have driven about 750 miles on this fill, most of it highway driving. I keep checking the oil and it has darkened a little bit but is still a rather transparent, red-ish (from the MMO) fluid. I had figured it would have become very dark from the deposits it was cleaning. So either it didn't do a good job of cleaning, or the engine was already pretty clean before starting this fill.

My question is, should I have varied my driving style more during the cleaning cycle, doing more "city" driving (stop and go, with constantly varying engine speed) or would that not have mattered? I have read threads about "Italian tune ups" and I did stay in lower gears longer than needed so that the engine speed would by higher at times, but I may not have done it enough.

I'm hoping to get some input from you guys so I can try to determine if the engine really is clean or if I need to do another MMO cycle with much more varied engine speeds, and longer periods of high rpm driving. I hope someone can shed some light on this. I would really rather not pull the cam cover to check it if I don't have to.


MMO doesn't clean in 750 miles, it is not a fast acting cleaner. I would run it 3000 miles keeping an eye on the oil level since you're not seeing any results yet. You might not have much to clean, OTOH after 750 miles you really didn't give the product much of a chance to do anything.

IMO driving on the highway does the best cleaning, getting the oil to temp, and keeping it there for 30 minutes or more. In your case for at least 3000 miles over a normal period of driving time.

Now if the oil got real dirty real fast I'd go about it a different way.

 

[sl1driver]

Originally Posted By: Donald
No comment on the snake oil.

Thanks for your input, Donald. Your post was most illuminating. Really. Your post means more to me than you can possibly imagine. My problem is solved! Thank you again! I am forever in your debt!

Edit: I apologize Donald. My remark was uncalled for. I do appreciate you almost keeping your thoughts to yourself.

 

[sl1driver]

OK, so I have received a range of replies. Everything from calling MMO "snake oil" to recommending that I keep it in for 3000 miles. I have certainly not found any evident that MMO will hurt my engine so I will leave it in for at least a while longer, perhaps up to 3000, and see if there is any any evidence of cleaning going on.

Thanks to all who replied to my question.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: sl1driver
OK, so I have received a range of replies. Everything from calling MMO "snake oil" to recommending that I keep it in for 3000 miles. I have certainly not found any evident that MMO will hurt my engine so I will leave it in for at least a while longer, perhaps up to 3000, and see if there is any any evidence of cleaning going on.

Thanks to all who replied to my question.


Good move! As long as you keep an eye on your oil level you'll be just fine. Who knows, maybe the engine is pristine inside and doesn't need any cleaning. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

 

[jfking106]

Originally Posted By: sl1driver
OK, so I have received a range of replies. Everything from calling MMO "snake oil" to recommending that I keep it in for 3000 miles. I have certainly not found any evident that MMO will hurt my engine so I will leave it in for at least a while longer, perhaps up to 3000, and see if there is any any evidence of cleaning going on.

Thanks to all who replied to my question.


As others have stated, MMO does work, but it doesn't work overnight. It certainly worked in my abused, 20 year old 93 Civic. When I took the valve cover off to replace what was probably the original valve cover gasket and seals, the entire valve train was jet black. After a year and a half of using MMO with Supertech dino, the rocker arms were almost completely clean. Take that story as you will. It sounds as if your engine is nowhere as dirty as mine was. Just replace 20% of your sump's oil capacity with MMO every oil change, and rest easy. If if your engine isn't dirty, it won't hurt anything, and it will help to keep it clean. One thing, though: some people have reported that the MMO will sometimes vaporize after 500 to 1000 miles, and get sucked out of the PCV system of some vehicles. It's a 10 weight oil, after all. You may want to bump up to the next highest viscosity to compensate for the MMO dilution.

 

[sl1driver]

Originally Posted By: jfking106
Originally Posted By: sl1driver
OK, so I have received a range of replies. Everything from calling MMO "snake oil" to recommending that I keep it in for 3000 miles. I have certainly not found any evident that MMO will hurt my engine so I will leave it in for at least a while longer, perhaps up to 3000, and see if there is any any evidence of cleaning going on.

Thanks to all who replied to my question.


As others have stated, MMO does work, but it doesn't work overnight. It certainly worked in my abused, 20 year old 93 Civic. When I took the valve cover off to replace what was probably the original valve cover gasket and seals, the entire valve train was jet black. After a year and a half of using MMO with Supertech dino, the rocker arms were almost completely clean. Take that story as you will. It sounds as if your engine is nowhere as dirty as mine was. Just replace 20% of your sump's oil capacity with MMO every oil change, and rest easy. If if your engine isn't dirty, it won't hurt anything, and it will help to keep it clean. One thing, though: some people have reported that the MMO will sometimes vaporize after 500 to 1000 miles, and get sucked out of the PCV system of some vehicles. It's a 10 weight oil, after all. You may want to bump up to the next highest viscosity to compensate for the MMO dilution.

Thanks for the reply. I'm using a mix of 5/30 and 10/40 (both PYB) along with the MMO. I'm keeping a close eye on my oil level. So far, no change on the dipstick. As soon as there is a drop I'll add some oil right away. I want to keep the sump completely full.

 

[sl1driver]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: sl1driver
OK, so I have received a range of replies. Everything from calling MMO "snake oil" to recommending that I keep it in for 3000 miles. I have certainly not found any evident that MMO will hurt my engine so I will leave it in for at least a while longer, perhaps up to 3000, and see if there is any any evidence of cleaning going on.

Thanks to all who replied to my question.


Good move! As long as you keep an eye on your oil level you'll be just fine. Who knows, maybe the engine is pristine inside and doesn't need any cleaning. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Thanks for your replies to this thread, demarpaint. I've been reading your posts on BITOG for quite a while and I respect your opinion. I was initially a bit leery of running an MMO fill for a full OCI, as I had read posts from people stating that it should be added for the last few hundred miles before an OC. I also think I remember reading that it could cause seals to dry out. After reading your posts here, as well as those of a few others, I feel more at ease about keeping it in longer. I'll keep it in for as long as it takes to see some evidence of cleaning, or up to 3K.

I have noticed a slight and very gradual increase in oil consumption over the last couple years. I was going on the assumption that my car was holding some deposits on and around the rings, as most Saturns do. Consumption is still very low, but was enough to get my attention. That is why I suspected some buildup of deposits, and wanted to clean it out. But maybe my previous use of PP has already cleaned up the engine. Time will tell.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: sl1driver


Thanks for your replies to this thread, demarpaint. I've been reading your posts on BITOG for quite a while and I respect your opinion. I was initially a bit leery of running an MMO fill for a full OCI, as I had read posts from people stating that it should be added for the last few hundred miles before an OC. I also think I remember reading that it could cause seals to dry out. After reading your posts here, as well as those of a few others, I feel more at ease about keeping it in longer. I'll keep it in for as long as it takes to see some evidence of cleaning, or up to 3K.

I have noticed a slight and very gradual increase in oil consumption over the last couple years. I was going on the assumption that my car was holding some deposits on and around the rings, as most Saturns do. Consumption is still very low, but was enough to get my attention. That is why I suspected some buildup of deposits, and wanted to clean it out. But maybe my previous use of PP has already cleaned up the engine. Time will tell.


Thanks for the kind words. Rest assured MMO is not going to damage any seals or gaskets in your engine. Now if sludge is creating a false seal you could develop a leak. The same holds true for several other cleaning products. A HM oil can correct that as long as the offending part is not damaged, but lets not go off topic. From the sound of it I think your engine is probably fairly clean. Stay with the plan, and report back when you're done.

 

[Finz]

Originally Posted By: sl1driver

I have noticed a slight and very gradual increase in oil consumption over the last couple years. I was going on the assumption that my car was holding some deposits on and around the rings, as most Saturns do. Consumption is still very low, but was enough to get my attention. That is why I suspected some buildup of deposits, and wanted to clean it out. But maybe my previous use of PP has already cleaned up the engine. Time will tell.


Granted, I don't know anything about Saturns and their potential to hold deposits, but would it make sense, given the oil consumption, to use a HM oil + MMO next OCI?

From what I've gathered, HM oils have very good cleaning abilities along with seal conditioners and, if the oil consumption you mentioned is something other than the deposits around the rings, you might be getting a head start on addressing

Just a thought