10w30 vs 5w30

[Clevy]

Jim has made a very valid point. The oil filter would be in by-pass at start up without a doubt,which sends unfiltered oil through the engine until the oil is hot enough and thin enough to be filtered.
Now if one could find a filter with a higher by-pass psi to run in this situation then that would lessen or stop the by-pass event from taking place.
We all know that even a 0w is too thick at start up,and a by-pass event can take place with oem rated filters if rpm are even slightly elevated,until the oil is up to operating temp.
This is why diesel filters tend to have higher psi by-pass ratings. They tend to require 10w and 15w oils specified from the oem and when cold these oils are hard to pump,so the by-pass is built for more psi to insure the oil passes through the filter.
Yes I'm sure the engine is running fine with a straight 40 grade oil and honestly if the engine ran continuous without shutting off its likely ideal however its far from optimal and I expect that there is much more start up wear occurring which may affect the longevity of the engine as a whole.
I think the rings are experiencing more wear simply because there would be absolutely no oil splashing on the cylinder walls for at least 90-120 seconds,until the oil is thin enough to splash up there.
Other than the rings the rest of the engine likely has enough of a film to not experience too much extra wear,but don't fool yourself there will be elevated wear.

 

[wally6934]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Jim has made a very valid point. The oil filter would be in by-pass at start up without a doubt,which sends unfiltered oil through the engine until the oil is hot enough and thin enough to be filtered.
Now if one could find a filter with a higher by-pass psi to run in this situation then that would lessen or stop the by-pass event from taking place.


I do not pretend to be the oil system expert but i think this is the way it works. When the oil goes in to bypass it is because the oil is many times too thick to go through the oil filter media. Raising the by-pass pressure 5 or 10 PSI is not going to be the differance of oil suddenly going thru the filter, especially at 10 GPM. In the meantime, the pressure of the bypass valve subtracts from the total amount of oil pressure of the system. If you have a 60 PSI oil pump and your system is in bypass mode and opening up a 15 PSI bypass valve then your remaining oil pressure to the engine is 45 PSI. So raising the bypass pressure will actually lower the oil pressure to the engine, when the engine is cold.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

If my engine specs 5W20 can I use 5W30?

 

[wally6934]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
If my engine specs 5W20 can I use 5W30?

Considering all of the people who routinely run one grade higher than is spec'd for their engine and proclaim they have no problems, i would say yes you can. And i suspect just about everyone on this board will agree with me.

The only debate here is if the engine is run until it dies how many miles would you have gotten from 5W20 and from 5W30. I do not think the question can or ever will be answered.

Some of the conditions you would have to take in account.
Climate.
The way you drive.
How much weight you carry around.
The type of oil used.
Short trips / long trips.
And probably the specific engine model.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: wally6934
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
If my engine specs 5W20 can I use 5W30?

Considering all of the people who routinely run one grade higher than is spec'd for their engine and proclaim they have no problems, i would say yes you can. And i suspect just about everyone on this board will agree with me.

The only debate here is if the engine is run until it dies how many miles would you have gotten from 5W20 and from 5W30. I do not think the question can or ever will be answered.

Some of the conditions you would have to take in account.
Climate.
The way you drive.
How much weight you carry around.
The type of oil used.
Short trips / long trips.
And probably the specific engine model.

Wally, no offense to you, very good reply though, but this Q? I asked was supposed to be humorous. Why? It has been BEATEN TO DEATH so bad all that is left of the beaten horse is dust.

But, as you see in my signature, I DO use 5W30 in my 5W20 spec'd engine. Why? Because this engines clearances and tolerances have NEVER been changed since it was spec'd for 5W30 in 1996. And, the 5W20 Gods here are very bothered by me using 5W30!

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
The oil filter would be in by-pass at start up without a doubt,which sends unfiltered oil through the engine until the oil is hot enough and thin enough to be filtered.

.... We all know that even a 0w is too thick at start up,and a by-pass event can take place with oem rated filters if rpm are even slightly elevated,until the oil is up to operating temp.


So, apparently, it comes down to this: oil flows, but in bypass mode just a little longer.

In reality, how many miles of engine life do any of you think it will cost me? Inperceptable, IMO.

 

[artificialist]

Theoretically a 10w30 would have less shear than a 5w30, but only oil analysis can prove shear happened. That is why I have put 10w30 synthetic in my turbocharged gasoline engine.

 

[wally6934]

BlueOvelFitter

OK, i understand you were making a joke but i did a little research and do not see any problem with you running 5W20 or 5W30.

Your engine was originally spec'd for 5W30. After testing your engine with 5W20 Ford found it runs well with it and you can get better gas milage with 5W20.

This thread has the ford bulletin.

http://www.fordf150.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=101014

Quote from bulletin.

“Testing has validated this viscosity grade can be used in many previous model year vehicles. It is recommended ALL vehicles on the following Vehicle Application Listing be service with SAE 5W-20.”

All this means to me is that your engine is dual rated, 5W30 or 5W20. I would say you are a very lucky man.

If you are hauling rocks around all the time for your landscaping business use the 5W30. If you just want to look cool tooling around in a empty pickup use 5W20.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: wally6934
If you are hauling rocks around all the time for your landscaping business use the 5W30. If you just want to look cool tooling around in a empty pickup use 5W20.

What if I want to look cool "while" hauling rocks around?

Wally, I knew this about my engine. I have owned this truck since new, with 6 original miles when bought. This is my 3rd 4.2 V6 engine to have been lucky enough to own. My friend has my last F150, 1997, and uses 10W30, 5W30, 10W40,etc., and with over 228K miles it is still running strong.

 

[wally6934]

"What if I want to look cool "while" hauling rocks around?"

OK, that was officially funny!

 

[Blue_Angel]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Blue_Angel
Mobil 1 @ 100C, 40C, VI, 150C (Canada):

SN SN SN
0W-30 5W-30 10W-30
10.9 11 10.1
62.9 61.7 63.2
166 172 146
3 3.1 3



Where exactly are we finding M1 0w-30 in Canada?


BAH, you caught me! My mistake... I picked up some 0W-30 AFE while in the US and posted the values in an Excel sheet, then I forgot they weren't all from Canada's site. Nice catch, will add comment to original post.

EDIT: I guess I can't edit my old post???

 

[Blue_Angel]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Of the 3 M1 xW30 grades, looks like 5W30 is thinnest at starting temperature (at least in So Cal), but it's thickest at operating temperature.


Yep. Highest VI, much higher than the 10W-30.

Aparently the AFE 0W-30 flows better than the 5W-30 at extreme cold temperatures.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Blue_Angel
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Of the 3 M1 xW30 grades, looks like 5W30 is thinnest at starting temperature (at least in So Cal), but it's thickest at operating temperature.


Yep. Highest VI, much higher than the 10W-30.

Aparently the AFE 0W-30 flows better than the 5W-30 at extreme cold temperatures.


It really is a newbie mistake to conclude operational viscosity differences based on kinematic viscosity difference between oils with different oil chemistries.
You're over looking the fact that M1 AFE 0W-30 has a lower HTHSV than M1 5W-30 but only a marginally lower VI.
Consiquently since HTHSV trumps KV100, AFE should be lighter at all oil temp's. And since Mobil claims AFE provides better fuel economy for AFE and fuel economy correlates with HTHSV (measured at various temp's not just 150C) that also confirms that it must be significantly lighter.

 

[Blue_Angel]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Blue_Angel
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Of the 3 M1 xW30 grades, looks like 5W30 is thinnest at starting temperature (at least in So Cal), but it's thickest at operating temperature.


Yep. Highest VI, much higher than the 10W-30.

Aparently the AFE 0W-30 flows better than the 5W-30 at extreme cold temperatures.


It really is a newbie mistake to conclude operational viscosity differences based on kinematic viscosity difference between oils with different oil chemistries.
You're over looking the fact that M1 AFE 0W-30 has a lower HTHSV than M1 5W-30 but only a marginally lower VI.
Consiquently since HTHSV trumps KV100, AFE should be lighter at all oil temp's. And since Mobil claims AFE provides better fuel economy for AFE and fuel economy correlates with HTHSV (measured at various temp's not just 150C) that also confirms that it must be significantly lighter.


Thanks for clarifying that! I just assumed the viscosity at each temperature would have been consistent and relative, especially from the same manufacturer? I guess specs aren't everything...