Napa #1348 failure on 1GR-FE

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Similar aftermarket failures have been documented in toyota's 2GR-FE engine.
Toyota engines need non-restrictive filters, period. Most of the time OEM are actually cheaper. I don't understand all that fascination with inferior and more expensive third party filters here.
 
The BITOG lore has always been that WIX filters were generally better flowing than Purolator and not considered a restrictive filter.

What mechanism in the Toyota engines requires that they have a filter less restrictive than "normal".

The filter gurus here claim that even the Purolators are hard pressed to ever be too restrictive. I'm confused.

I used 1348's for 9 years+ in my 4 cyl. Caravan which I sold this spring. During the last year, the engine developed an undiagnosed start up tick that would disappear in 5 to 10 seconds. My mechanic guessed piston slap.

Could Wix have changed the media to a more restrictive one? Or, some other design change?
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Similar aftermarket failures have been documented in toyota's 2GR-FE engine.


purolator2.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Could Wix have changed the media to a more restrictive one? Or, some other design change?


The media and/or quality may not be consistent depending upon the country of manufacture.
 
1) Is there an autopsy of that filter? I didn't see one.

2) Any indication of how long that filter had been on? I didn't see any.

More or less looks like a hit piece to me and a lot of overhyped and largely unsubstantiated claims. There are too many unanswered questions from that source to say there are any generic issues with Wix. Possibly the one oil filter failed or was defective. That could happen to a genuine Toyota part or any other filter. Possibly something else that is not shown... either on purpose or out of ignorance.

If there is any official rational for low efficiency filters in Toyotas, I've never heard it and would be grateful to do so. Nothing I can think of makes much sense.

Many of the issues that come up with Toyotas and oil filters regards sludging... which can plug a filter right quick. Sludging is a maintenance and sometimes an engine design issue, not a filter issue

All this flow stuff is a red herring, generally speaking. In the vast, vast majority of cases, any oil filter has more than enough available flow for normal operation. That would be something the aftermarket would check on before writing the applications. Screwups occur but this is an old application.

Also, do we know that those Toyotas (or any Toytoa) flow so much more oil than other engines? If so, let's see some info on that. All we really know is that the Toyota filters are low efficiency. Is there data to prove they are "high flow" vs any aftermarket filter? Without answers to those questions, and others, all thats being done is to scoop the manure from one pile to the other and pass off unsubstantiated information as fact.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
All we really know is that the Toyota filters are low efficiency. Is there data to prove they are "high flow" vs any aftermarket filter?


Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Without answers to those questions, and others, all thats being done is to scoop the manure from one pile to the other and pass off unsubstantiated information as fact.



We do know that efficiency and flow are inversely related given the limitation of surface area. As for the OEM specs, I'm sure they are proprietary, so how do you suggest getting the data?

You didn't provide any facts either, so that spreading manure too, right?
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
1) Is there an autopsy of that filter? I didn't see one.

2) Any indication of how long that filter had been on? I didn't see any.

More or less looks like a hit piece to me and a lot of overhyped and largely unsubstantiated claims. There are too many unanswered questions from that source to say there are any generic issues with Wix. Possibly the one oil filter failed or was defective. That could happen to a genuine Toyota part or any other filter. Possibly something else that is not shown... either on purpose or out of ignorance.

If there is any official rational for low efficiency filters in Toyotas, I've never heard it and would be grateful to do so. Nothing I can think of makes much sense.

Many of the issues that come up with Toyotas and oil filters regards sludging... which can plug a filter right quick. Sludging is a maintenance and sometimes an engine design issue, not a filter issue

All this flow stuff is a red herring, generally speaking. In the vast, vast majority of cases, any oil filter has more than enough available flow for normal operation. That would be something the aftermarket would check on before writing the applications. Screwups occur but this is an old application.

Also, do we know that those Toyotas (or any Toytoa) flow so much more oil than other engines? If so, let's see some info on that. All we really know is that the Toyota filters are low efficiency. Is there data to prove they are "high flow" vs any aftermarket filter? Without answers to those questions, and others, all thats being done is to scoop the manure from one pile to the other and pass off unsubstantiated information as fact.


Given how I initially came across the information, I'd say "hit piece" is a bit of a paranoid reaction. If it was posted here or a Toyota forum and the author had some interest in hating on Wix, then you might have something there.

So far I haven't seen you present any facts, but then again I suppose you could argue that the tests in the videos were rigged, too.

Personally, as someone that has used the 1348's in the past on my 5VZ-FE motor, I was curious if there had been some change in construction or materials. I haven't had to use a 1348 in 18 months now, since I run a 1GR-FE, and decided to stick with the same filter that comes on the motor from the factory (the 90915-20004).

As for flow data, isn't this something that a bench rig could be devised for (I would imagine they already exist, but it sounds like you'd have to re-invent the wheel to make a test setup). Or I guess you could take a car, tape pressure gauges before and after the filter, observe pressure drop, and interpret the data from there (if nothing else, a relative flow change between brands).

Finally, despite searching (came up empty) - where is it said that Toyota filters are low efficiency? Hrm...I just did a Google search for "low efficiency oil filter" and the link below was my first hit. I grabbed the PDF and will read it now (so no opinion about its content). Maybe it will be informative.

http://www.documents.dgs.ca.gov/ofa/FAMS/evaloilfilters.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek



We do know that efficiency and flow are inversely related given the limitation of surface area. As for the OEM specs, I'm sure they are proprietary, so how do you suggest getting the data?



That's only true if all else is equal; all else isn't necessarily equal since different filters use different media.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Toyota engines need non-restrictive filters, period. Most of the time OEM are actually cheaper. I don't understand all that fascination with inferior and more expensive third party filters here.


+1 I don't get it either.
 
Originally Posted By: MinamiKotaro
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Could Wix have changed the media to a more restrictive one? Or, some other design change?


The media and/or quality may not be consistent depending upon the country of manufacture.


How does he know the filter wasn't counterfeit and were complete junk and didn't flow at all?

I could not get the video to open/play.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
All we really know is that the Toyota filters are low efficiency. Is there data to prove they are "high flow" vs any aftermarket filter? Without answers to those questions, and others, all thats being done is to scoop the manure from one pile to the other and pass off unsubstantiated information as fact.


+1 Which is exactly why I buy the Toyota factory filters in bulk for about $4 each. I have a few MANN filters left over for my kids Rav but for the cartridge ones OEM all the way. You can get them on Amazon for free shipping over $25 and no tax so you don't even have to leave the house. So the argument is moot as far as I am concerned. Plus if I do have an oil warranty issue I can show a genuine factory filter receipt. Done, done and done.
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
The BITOG lore has always been that WIX filters were generally better flowing than Purolator and not considered a restrictive filter.


Purolator filters probably flow better than most. I've never seen the flow vs PSID data for a comparable WIX, but I highly doubt it's any better.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451
 
Originally Posted By: obscurotron

Finally, despite searching (came up empty) - where is it said that Toyota filters are low efficiency?


Amsoil independent ISO 4548-12 efficiency testing says so.

 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
All this flow stuff is a red herring, generally speaking.


I agree ... I think there are many factors involved when something like this happens. In order for the oil pressure to drop as much as was measured (guy in the link says "Oil pressure is between 4-10 psi and drops at 2500), the filter would have to be basically fully clogged (sludged up?) and the bypass valve not be able to flow enough to keep the engine alive.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
1) Is there an autopsy of that filter? I didn't see one.

2) Any indication of how long that filter had been on? I didn't see any.

More or less looks like a hit piece to me and a lot of overhyped and largely unsubstantiated claims. There are too many unanswered questions from that source to say there are any generic issues with Wix.....

+1 Where 's the pics of the oil filter(s)? Was a claim submitted to Wix with filter for testing? Not enough information in the link to determine causation one way or the other. Also agree that oil filter flow is an insignificant consideration in pc use.

Slightly off topic, just finished installing my third 7250 Napa Gold(Wix) cartridge on a 3.8L Hyundia. Every bit the quality of oem for less than half the cost. I have no issues or concerns about using it either. And it's worth noting the Hyundai/Kia have a tsb regarding using 'some' aftermarket filters.
 
Notice the location of the guy in the link telling of this failure - Fairbanks, Alaska.

Clogged up oil filter plus real cold weather making oil thick as honey might have something to do with it also.
 
The OP's link says "I have had 2 confirmed cases of a WIX/NAPA oil filter #1348 causing restriction in oil pressure on Toyota 4.0 Engines."

- I implore everyone to read the service repair records before posting anecdotes.
- The filter was sent to NAPA/WIX, but there is no evidence presented what was found. Inside the filter lies the answer.
- This shop replaced the DEFECTIVE OIL PUMP IN FEBRUARY AND CLAIMED THERE WAS NO INTERNAL ENGINE DAMAGE DUE TO USE OF BG MOA ADDITIVE AT EVERY OIL CHANGE. They admit they did NOT inspect the cylinder walls at this time. Can you say "red flag"?
- Two months later the engine fails? Blame the oil filter? Red flag?

We can debate this until eternity, but without the filter autopsy, we have nothing to debate.

My opinion? It sure looks like this garage is trying to cover it's arse on their earlier repair of the failed oil pump that "resulted in no engine damage whatsoever".

The BG oil additive comment is priceless. MOA is an anti-oxident as far as I know.

READ THE REPAIR HISTORY BEFORE SPECULATING!
 
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