They Blamed MMO

[Finz]

Hi Folks... Been a fan of BITOG for years and have learned plenty. Now I finally have a question that I don't think has been raised yet...?

Unfortunately, I don't know how to upload a couple pictures of my issue but I DO have some nice pics.. (learning curve for me in here - can someone direct me? I don't understand what BITOG's FAQ is telling me to do)

OK...

My daughter's '98 accord 2.4L has 187,600 +/- on it. Bought it used in '09 at 150,000 miles with decent service records. Her usage of the car is a lot of short hops with the occasional 140 r/t to her boyfriend's house - mainly highway... about 2 times a month. She does warm the car up for 5+ minutes in the morning before heading on her way

Since we've owned the car, I've religiously changed the oil along w/ filter - first at 5k intervals and, as of 175k, 3k intervals with Mobil 1 0W-30. At 187k I used Penzoil HM 10W-40 which I think I'm going to regret

I changed the PCV at 170k and again with this last oil change (plenty of vacuum)

Last year, while at college, her radiator developed a leak and it was a few months before I had he car long enough to replace it. Not aware of any killer over-heating, but it was running hot.. no question

Some months after that, the car starting using oil... never blew out the tail pipe... never any drops or puddles in the driveway... Just disappeared. It reached a point where she was a qt low at 1,000 - 1,200. At some point last fall (175k) her check engine light came on because the oil level dropped so low (didn't know that could actually happen). I immediately changed the oil and filter and changed OCI to 3k

Lots more to talk about with regard to the oil and ticking (now knocking) but this is getting too long - especially for a first-post

My immediate issue is this:

Been reading with a LOT of interest the use and MMO and Kreens. Decided to place 6 oz of MMO in the fuel tank prior to a fill-up this weekend (17 gal tank) and it took only about 3+ gals to fill it. Figured it would mix nicely and I could continue this regime going forward. Then I remembered that there was still 3/4 tank with a Lucas UCL dose in there.

So now, with 50 miles on the car, I have a lot of stuff added to that Shell gas... Car reacts to the gas pedal nicely and, of and by itself, I can't say I can even tell - so no harm no foul?

With regard to the knocking above, I was searching the net for some insight and learned that sometimes a loose spark plug could cause an engine to knock. Hit it first thing this morning and was amazed at the colorization of the plugs - they have a reddish coating on them - all over the porcelain and the electrodes. These plugs were installed a month ago and have less than 3,00 miles on them (NGK G's). Like I said, I have great pics but can't figure out how to upload them

I just got back from AAP and picked up another set of NGKs but before I throw them in I wanted to bounce it around here. Mentioned it the AAP guy and he blamed the MMO for the red color...? I find that hard to believe, especially after only 50 miles but...?

Any ideas...? Again the pictures tell a better tale, but I've never seen a spark plug come out looking like this. They are totally intact (electrodes were fine and no cracks or anything) it's just that crazy color. And it isn't powdery nor does it flake off. A reddish/brown that was baked on. I could scratch some off with my finger nail but other than that, that stuff is on there

Any thoughts? Can't wait to get some input from you guys - thank you in advance

This is my first post and I am so sorry that it's reading like a novel, but I wanted to give you some background on the car and still have lots more to discuss ... (God help you)

Thank you

 

[Kool1]

Personally I've never been able to stop oil burning with a band aid approach. I've always had to change rings, valve seals, or both to stop oil burning. Some people have had luck with "Restore" which supposedly has metals to fill in gaps and some people have luck by changing weights of oil. I never seem to have luck in stopping oil burning without a lot of labor in pulling apart the engine.

 

[SrDriver]

I am over 70 years of age and have been using MMO at every fill in both my and my wife's vehicles for countless years. Run normally around 4 oz per 10 gallons.

When I buy a new car have my MMO with me and when they give you a "free" tank of gas add the MMO from the first tank onward.

Never had any issues with it.

 

[Finz]

Thanks Kool1...

I'm lucky, for my "fleet" of hondas, this is the only burner of the lot so it's all new to me.

The heavier weight oil makes some sense to me depending on WHY I'm losing oil, but the problem is I have no tell-tale signs and I'm not about to bust this thing open unless I absolutely have to

I'm going to start another thread outside of this Fuel Additive section to discuss the oil burn and tick/knock issues but wanted to get some insight on the plug color as I just find it so odd

One quick additional note: No coolant leakage either as the AAP guy also mentioned it could be rust on the plugs

 

[Finz]

Originally Posted By: SrDriver
I am over 70 years of age and have been using MMO at every fill in both my and my wife's vehicles for countless years. Run normally around 4 oz per 10 gallons.

When I buy a new car have my MMO with me and when they give you a "free" tank of gas add the MMO from the first tank onward.

Never had any issues with it.


SrDriver... I have every reason to believe that MMO will be a great maintenance item in my cars and I still intend to go forward with treating this Accord.

I threw 6 oz into my 17 gal tank - just a tad short of your dosage

And, although I wish I remembered I had Lucas in the tank, I don't think it will cause any problems - just a waste as I doubled-up on UCL

It's just that the plugs are a silly red color which I never saw before

Crazy, huh?

 

[spasm3]

Its possible your head gasket is leaking and the coolant has been contaminating the oil. That would wear the main bearings and cause knocking.

 

[Finz]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Its possible your head gasket is leaking and the coolant has been contaminating the oil. That would wear the main bearings and cause knocking.


It certainly is possible Spasm3 but I drained a qt of oil yesterday (to make room for an MMO application: 28 oz in 4.5 qt sump) and it was dark brown to black. If coolant was in there, wouldn't it be more of a brown/tan/grey and somewhat foamy?

However, I drained the oil from a cold engine so maybe only foamy when hot...? Still.. the color, I think, would have been far lighter... no?

 

[Clevy]

I have a top end oiler which adds mmo to the airstream as a vapour and my plugs aren't read. None of me vehicles have ever turned plugs red so I doubt that's the problem.
What colour is the anti-freeze.
And if using oil try motor oil saver by a company called liqui-moly. If the gasket isn't physically broken and if the valve guides aren't completely toast it should help.

 

[demarpaint]

6 ounces of MMO in the gas for 50 miles and the AAP guy claims the MMO changed the color the plug insulators. LOL.

You said this. "Last year, while at college, her radiator developed a leak and it was a few months before I had he car long enough to replace it. Not aware of any killer over-heating, but it was running hot.. no question"

I'd looking in that direction since you really don't know how hot or how long the car was run hot.

 

[Finz]

Thanks for the input Clevy

I'm going to look into liquid moly after another OCI or 2 - read a lot about it the last few days. I'm cautiously optimistic that Penzoil HM (more appropriate grade next time) will have an effect and I want to try a process-of-elimination approach otherwise, I'll just confuse myself

The anti-freeze is green and clean as a whistle.. no oil slicks or anything and the overflow reservoir is not dirty either

I can't imagine the MMO would redden the plugs - such a small dose. BUT... with "double" UCL dosage between Lucas and MMO, perhaps it became clingy and stuck to the plugs...? nah - that can't be right

 

[Finz]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
6 ounces of MMO in the gas for 50 miles and the AAP guy claims the MMO changed the color the plug insulators. LOL.

You said this. "Last year, while at college, her radiator developed a leak and it was a few months before I had he car long enough to replace it. Not aware of any killer over-heating, but it was running hot.. no question"

I'd looking in that direction since you really don't know how hot or how long the car was run hot.


INSULATORS... that's the word I was looking for earlier...!!

I know - he was dead serious when he said it, too

I don't know jack about the overheating but the plugs I took out in June were "normal" looking: nice burn pattern, no oil, no cracks/chips...

Are you referring to the red color possibly being associated with the overheating? Granted, that was a lot of miles ago and nearly 12 months ago

Could it take that long for something to develop? I mean, I know it can but it seems so sudden/drastic

What direction/What should I be looking for with regard to the overheating?

 

[Finz]

demarpaint

In another post you helped someone with uploading their photos.. but I can't recall the program you suggested and I can't recall the thread

Do you have a certain way of bringing pics into the conversation?

 

[cat843]

Definitely MMO related.

 

[demarpaint]

Did you fix the problem with the leak? Is the car running normally now without getting too hot? If so then don't worry about it. Were the NGK plugs the proper plug and heat range for the car?

Just about everyone who has been here that reads my posts knows I've been using MMO for a long time. I've added two qts of it added to a 20 gallon gas tank and it didn't discolor my plugs from what I can remember. I've been fogging engines with it for years and it never changed the color of a plug, so I say the guy in the parts store was wrong.

As a side note-I also learned today that SrDriver has been using MMO longer than me.

Did you notice any improvement after you changed the plugs with only 3K miles on them?

 

[InhalingBullets]

I'm not one to necessarily subscribe to "snake" oil but, several years ago we took my parents old 1985 Chevy conversion van on vacation and before leaving I was told it was burning a quart of oil every 2 tanks of gas. I changed the oil in the old 305ci motor before leaving and after about 2.5 hours of Texas summer hwy driving it had in fact burned about 3/4 quart of oil. I put in 1 can of Restore, filled up and went about our merry way. I'm not sure if the Restore was responsible or not but van did not burn anymore oil the remainder of our 1200 mile trip. This was the only time I ever used Restore and I was happy with the results whether they were temporary or not. Mom and dad kept the van a few more years before they sold it and I don't know if it continued to burn oil after our trip or not.

I don't believe the MMO caused the color change on the plugs. More than likely it is the oil getting past the rings into the combustion chamber and burning off during ignition. Particularly if the color on the plugs is a similar color to engine varnish. Do some of the plugs have more color than others?

 

[Rolla07]

MMO likely makes no difference at all. Most gas is very clean.. but again it wont cause any problems either. What is your logic with adding MMO to the engine oil? Why would you regret using Pennzoil HM 10W40? I would try a high mileage oil on its own, and if it still uses, I would go with trying the Motor Oil saver, recommended by Clevy. See this link too: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1907302

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Finz
demarpaint

In another post you helped someone with uploading their photos.. but I can't recall the program you suggested and I can't recall the thread

Do you have a certain way of bringing pics into the conversation?



You have to open a photo-bucket account and upload them from there. The 4th button from the right, up top, start counting from the

. It's called "Enter an Image", paste the URL from the photo after it has been uploaded to photo-bucket. That should do it, it takes a little trial and error the first few times. Or you could email me the pictures and I'll post them. Shoot me a PM and I'll give you an email address. HTH

Disclaimer-With regard to posting pics, above is how I do it, there might be another way.

 

[Falken]

I find too many people back MMO.

If you want to add witchcraft to your gas tank stick with PEA or TC-W3.

But in this case, I think your car ran hot and the plugs discolored, and with a pile of additives in the tank who knows what caused them to be red.

A plug that spikes in temp won't slough off deposits properly according to this (under insulator glazing):

http://www.google.ca/imgres?client=firefox-a&hs=Ciw&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&biw=1440&bih=754&tbm=isch&tbnid=EhS9ps7_dyYXaM:&imgrefurl=http://mastercams.co.za/checking-fuel-distributions-by-spark-plug-reading.html&docid=oAWztuV310ogjM&imgurl=http://mastercams.co.za/images/spark-plug-reading-lg.jpg&w=1258&h=1300&ei=Cxj4UZXmEpax4AOFmIHwDg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:0,s:0,i:79&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=190&tbnw=184&start=0&ndsp=20&tx=104&ty=72

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Falken
I find too many people back MMO.

If you want to add witchcraft to your gas tank stick with PEA or TC-W3.

But in this case, I think your car ran hot and the plugs discolored, and with a pile of additives in the tank who knows what caused them to be red.

A plug that spikes in temp won't slough off deposits properly according to this (under insulator glazing):

http://www.google.ca/imgres?client=firefox-a&hs=Ciw&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&biw=1440&bih=754&tbm=isch&tbnid=EhS9ps7_dyYXaM:&imgrefurl=http://mastercams.co.za/checking-fuel-distributions-by-spark-plug-reading.html&docid=oAWztuV310ogjM&imgurl=http://mastercams.co.za/images/spark-plug-reading-lg.jpg&w=1258&h=1300&ei=Cxj4UZXmEpax4AOFmIHwDg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:0,s:0,i:79&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=190&tbnw=184&start=0&ndsp=20&tx=104&ty=72


I wonder if TCW3 would have turned those plugs blue/green under the conditions he described?

 

[Finz]

Yes, new radiator and all the fun stuff that goes along with it. Not a hint of high temps since radiator was replaced

The car is running very well... nice power, good MPG, no complaints except oil usage and, now a tick that is turning into a knock

I know you're a huge advocate of MMO - frankly, that's why I named the thread as such hoping it would peak your interest

I haven't changed the "red" plugs yet and can't say I noticed any significant difference from the last time they were changed... (20k miles ago..?)

I don't believe for a second that the plugs turned red because of the MMO, but it's just weird..

If I could show you the pics, I think you would all agree...? Maybe not