"Synthetic" oil filter nonsense
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Originally Posted By: Azeem
I convinced myself that $3 Purolator Classic in my daily driver had synthetic media and didn't lose sleep over it
I convinced myself that $3 Purolator Classic in my daily driver had synthetic media and didn't lose sleep over it
I think it was Jim Allen (or was it DN3...I keep getting them confused) who stated that using a filter of higher quality than required by the system did not produce a linear decrease in wear. IOW, a filter that is twice as "good" won't give you twice the engine longevity. Case in point: how many Crown Vics and F150s are driven to huge mileage on all kinds of cheap-o bulk fleet filters?
Having said that, I think a filter with synthetic media *may* have some value for the extended-OCI crowd or for uses that are especially hard on the filter, but for us "normal" folk, they are just a marketing gimmick.
Having said that, I think a filter with synthetic media *may* have some value for the extended-OCI crowd or for uses that are especially hard on the filter, but for us "normal" folk, they are just a marketing gimmick.
This article explains why full synthetic filters hold more and flow better. It all boils down to pore size and pore density of the media.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29114/dirt-holding-capacity
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29114/dirt-holding-capacity
Hi,
Zhukov - Well, no nonsense! To a large degree you get what you pay for, and excellent synthetic media FFs do exist
I used the Donaldson Endurance "Synteq" versions in my OTR DD powered vehicles for several years. The longest time in service was about 8 months (130kkms about 80k miles) without change - the media and its other parts were still in excellent condition. Average OCIs were 80kkms (50k miles)
I was very reluctant to take normal cellulose filters beyond 25kkms (16k miles) and to use sensible engine revs for about 10mins from a cold start. My Drivers were instructed accordingly
I used them with a high quality 5W-54 HDEO in order to get quick cold flow with the minimum of time in differential by-pass (40F v 70F) considering there is 38lts of lubricant in these engines. This enabled the engine to be used correctly and safely when cold and when entering a Highway
Later I changed to SS FF screens with a centrifuge, but that's another story
So, the synthetic media filters are worth the money if they come from a major Manufacturer and you seek significantly extended OCIs. For the average person using near recommended OCIs their value is very marginal!
Zhukov - Well, no nonsense! To a large degree you get what you pay for, and excellent synthetic media FFs do exist
I used the Donaldson Endurance "Synteq" versions in my OTR DD powered vehicles for several years. The longest time in service was about 8 months (130kkms about 80k miles) without change - the media and its other parts were still in excellent condition. Average OCIs were 80kkms (50k miles)
I was very reluctant to take normal cellulose filters beyond 25kkms (16k miles) and to use sensible engine revs for about 10mins from a cold start. My Drivers were instructed accordingly
I used them with a high quality 5W-54 HDEO in order to get quick cold flow with the minimum of time in differential by-pass (40F v 70F) considering there is 38lts of lubricant in these engines. This enabled the engine to be used correctly and safely when cold and when entering a Highway
Later I changed to SS FF screens with a centrifuge, but that's another story
So, the synthetic media filters are worth the money if they come from a major Manufacturer and you seek significantly extended OCIs. For the average person using near recommended OCIs their value is very marginal!
Too much OCD around here
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Zhukov - Well, no nonsense! To a large degree you get what you pay for, and excellent synthetic media FFs do exist
I used the Donaldson Endurance "Synteq" versions in my OTR DD powered vehicles for several years. The longest time in service was about 8 months (130kkms about 80k miles) without change - the media and its other parts were still in excellent condition. Average OCIs were 80kkms (50k miles)
I was very reluctant to take normal cellulose filters beyond 25kkms (16k miles) and to use sensible engine revs for about 10mins from a cold start. My Drivers were instructed accordingly
I used them with a high quality 5W-54 HDEO in order to get quick cold flow with the minimum of time in differential by-pass (40F v 70F) considering there is 38lts of lubricant in these engines. This enabled the engine to be used correctly and safely when cold and when entering a Highway
Later I changed to SS FF screens with a centrifuge, but that's another story
So, the synthetic media filters are worth the money if they come from a major Manufacturer and you seek significantly extended OCIs. For the average person using near recommended OCIs their value is very marginal!
Awesome post. So the cliff notes are if using a synthetic media filter and running it a 5000 mile interval is basically of "marginal" value.
Awesome. I use napa golds and run em or 2 oci's which could be as much as 10000 miles or more depending on the amount of idle and driving and ambient temps.
I think I'll stick with it.
Awesome post Doug Hillary.
Hi,
Zhukov - Well, no nonsense! To a large degree you get what you pay for, and excellent synthetic media FFs do exist
I used the Donaldson Endurance "Synteq" versions in my OTR DD powered vehicles for several years. The longest time in service was about 8 months (130kkms about 80k miles) without change - the media and its other parts were still in excellent condition. Average OCIs were 80kkms (50k miles)
I was very reluctant to take normal cellulose filters beyond 25kkms (16k miles) and to use sensible engine revs for about 10mins from a cold start. My Drivers were instructed accordingly
I used them with a high quality 5W-54 HDEO in order to get quick cold flow with the minimum of time in differential by-pass (40F v 70F) considering there is 38lts of lubricant in these engines. This enabled the engine to be used correctly and safely when cold and when entering a Highway
Later I changed to SS FF screens with a centrifuge, but that's another story
So, the synthetic media filters are worth the money if they come from a major Manufacturer and you seek significantly extended OCIs. For the average person using near recommended OCIs their value is very marginal!
Awesome post. So the cliff notes are if using a synthetic media filter and running it a 5000 mile interval is basically of "marginal" value.
Awesome. I use napa golds and run em or 2 oci's which could be as much as 10000 miles or more depending on the amount of idle and driving and ambient temps.
I think I'll stick with it.
Awesome post Doug Hillary.
HMM, 15 years ago I was running 7500 -12,000 mile OCI with synthetic oil and the filters on hand at the time and even those filters 15 years ago made the extended OCI trip. Are filters better today, probably, will they make any difference in the longevity of my vehicle, probably not. Are they worth the extra $$ probably not IMO. Of course, I still believe that oil filters are pretty much useless appendages on modern engines.
What about the fact that some synthetic media filters are listed at a lower efficiency?
Originally Posted By: cp3
What about the fact that some synthetic media filters are listed at a lower efficiency?
It's not by much. Example is the Purolator synthetic compared to the PureOne.
Synthetic = 99% @25 microns.
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/oil_filters/Pages/SyntheticOilFilters.aspx
PureOne = 99.9 % @ 20 microns.
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/oil_filters/Pages/pureoneoilfilters.aspx
IMO, not enough difference to worry about.
What about the fact that some synthetic media filters are listed at a lower efficiency?
It's not by much. Example is the Purolator synthetic compared to the PureOne.
Synthetic = 99% @25 microns.
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/oil_filters/Pages/SyntheticOilFilters.aspx
PureOne = 99.9 % @ 20 microns.
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/oil_filters/Pages/pureoneoilfilters.aspx
IMO, not enough difference to worry about.
Originally Posted By: Spector
Of course, I still believe that oil filters are pretty much useless appendages on modern engines.
After seeing how much carbon debris was caught in the PureOne after 5K miles in a clean engine with 52K miles on it, I'd have to conclude that even in modern engines you need a good oil filter.
Of course, I still believe that oil filters are pretty much useless appendages on modern engines.
After seeing how much carbon debris was caught in the PureOne after 5K miles in a clean engine with 52K miles on it, I'd have to conclude that even in modern engines you need a good oil filter.
Ah but isn't not much difference a cornerstone of BITOG discussion? I seem to remember some filters not getting a glowing recommendation by some as they were not as good as P1's 99.9@20.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
After seeing how much carbon debris was caught in the PureOne after 5K miles in a clean engine with 52K miles on it, I'd have to conclude that even in modern engines you need a good oil filter.
Perhaps, but no factual studies that will show that this capture of carbon debris will actually shorten engine life. Does carbon debris actually cause wear? All anecdotal feel good theories, no factual studies. So, whatever lets one sleep at night is the way to go.
After seeing how much carbon debris was caught in the PureOne after 5K miles in a clean engine with 52K miles on it, I'd have to conclude that even in modern engines you need a good oil filter.
Perhaps, but no factual studies that will show that this capture of carbon debris will actually shorten engine life. Does carbon debris actually cause wear? All anecdotal feel good theories, no factual studies. So, whatever lets one sleep at night is the way to go.
Originally Posted By: Spector
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
After seeing how much carbon debris was caught in the PureOne after 5K miles in a clean engine with 52K miles on it, I'd have to conclude that even in modern engines you need a good oil filter.
Perhaps, but no factual studies that will show that this capture of carbon debris will actually shorten engine life. Does carbon debris actually cause wear? All anecdotal feel good theories, no factual studies. So, whatever lets one sleep at night is the way to go.
Guess you could put a hollow can on the oil filter mount and never have to buy an oil filter again. I'll let you try it out first.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
After seeing how much carbon debris was caught in the PureOne after 5K miles in a clean engine with 52K miles on it, I'd have to conclude that even in modern engines you need a good oil filter.
Perhaps, but no factual studies that will show that this capture of carbon debris will actually shorten engine life. Does carbon debris actually cause wear? All anecdotal feel good theories, no factual studies. So, whatever lets one sleep at night is the way to go.
Guess you could put a hollow can on the oil filter mount and never have to buy an oil filter again. I'll let you try it out first.
Way back when Bob (board originator) actually did. The early years of BITOG.
Originally Posted By: Spector
Way back when Bob (board originator) actually did. The early years of BITOG.
There actually was a "BOB?"
Way back when Bob (board originator) actually did. The early years of BITOG.
There actually was a "BOB?"
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Spector
Way back when Bob (board originator) actually did. The early years of BITOG.
There actually was a "BOB?"
Here's his profile and all his posts. He passed on a few years ago from what I've heard.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=2
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&id=2
Originally Posted By: Spector
Way back when Bob (board originator) actually did. The early years of BITOG.
There actually was a "BOB?"
Here's his profile and all his posts. He passed on a few years ago from what I've heard.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=2
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&id=2
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Spector
Way back when Bob (board originator) actually did. The early years of BITOG.
There actually was a "BOB?"
Yep. was a Schaeffer's oil rep in Fla but did not start BITOG to sell product it was all but education and discussion. Actually spoke with him a few times in the early years. He did do some home experimenting as well, in fact he did do the bypass so the engine could run without a filter as s test. As I remember his results did not show a problem but I do not remember the details of the test.
His little chat line has come a long long way!
Originally Posted By: Spector
Way back when Bob (board originator) actually did. The early years of BITOG.
There actually was a "BOB?"
Yep. was a Schaeffer's oil rep in Fla but did not start BITOG to sell product it was all but education and discussion. Actually spoke with him a few times in the early years. He did do some home experimenting as well, in fact he did do the bypass so the engine could run without a filter as s test. As I remember his results did not show a problem but I do not remember the details of the test.
His little chat line has come a long long way!
Originally Posted By: Spector
He did do some home experimenting as well, in fact he did do the bypass so the engine could run without a filter as s test. As I remember his results did not show a problem but I do not remember the details of the test.
I posted a link in a few posts above to all of his posts on the board if anyone wants to go find what he posted up over the years.
He did do some home experimenting as well, in fact he did do the bypass so the engine could run without a filter as s test. As I remember his results did not show a problem but I do not remember the details of the test.
I posted a link in a few posts above to all of his posts on the board if anyone wants to go find what he posted up over the years.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
He passed on a few years ago from what I've heard.
First time I hear. From what I know, he suffered some serious medical problems a while back which made him step away from running BITOG, but I wasn't aware that he passed away?
He passed on a few years ago from what I've heard.
First time I hear. From what I know, he suffered some serious medical problems a while back which made him step away from running BITOG, but I wasn't aware that he passed away?
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