Tire wear vs speed

[supton]

I know it goes up, but is there a rule of thumb?

I generally cruise at 75-80mph, and have never gotten great tire life. I had Conti Pro-something on my Jetta, and I would have to drive to the wear bars to get 40kmiles. Snow tires seem able to get past 40k--but they flat spot on me around that time (two sets now).

With the Camry not getting past 30k I'm starting to wonder if it's me that is the problem--wife drives the bulk of the miles, but I usually drive the long trips, and at 80 for a few hours at a time. So maybe I'm the one removing all the rubber?

BTW, I get even wear, unless if I over-inflate.

 

[JHZR2]

I cant get tires to last that short. Our tires typically have over half tread left when we replace them due to age/cracking, and usually that is at the 50-60k mile mark.

The Conti ProContacts that my wife has are the next set to be swapped, at about 55k and 5.5 years. Lots of cracks. About half tread left.

We never drive over 75, usually in the 65-72 mph range and lots of local driving. I believe capriracer said that straight is practicaly free, its the curves that do the wearing...

You may be taking curves too hard. While fun, we generally dont do this and it likely helps us to extract max life from our tires.

 

[Carbuff]

The faster you go, the less firmly the tire touches the road, right?

I remember an old anecdote where Jack Roush tossed a few cigars onto the racetrack where his NASCAR team was testing. The cars ran over the cigars, but they were hardly damaged...still able to be "enjoyed".

Seriously, if your cars are wearing tires more often than is typical (ask on model-specific Forums), I'd look into alignment first. Find a good shop and tell them you want to maximize tire wear.

 

[eljefino]

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. If you're pushing so much air out of the way your MPGs are down vs the speed limit, that force is going through your tires.

 

[supton]

I usually don't slow down much for highway turns. Around town is different; but other than on the test drive on the truck, I haven't made a tire howl in years, and I use stock sized tires.

Then again, now that I think about it, nothing ever stays put in the trunk in my car. But that wouldn't explain the Camry which is never cornered hard. Neither car sees heavy braking. Heavy acceleration perhaps, but both are 4 cylinders so that doesn't mean much.

Driven lightly the cars can match EPA highway. Track straight too. If I don't rotate often enough the front will wear much faster (no surprise) and the rears will feather badly, which I'm told is common to that year of Jetta (no data yet on the Camry in this regard).

Maybe it is too-spirited driving, but I would have expected more wear on the tire edges if that was true, or the driver front to wear faster from heavy acceleration (or faster left side wear, due to rotations). The Jetta does need tire pressure above door jamb numbers to wear evenly, the Camry does fine at the door jamb.

 

[Danno]

Snow tires, no surprise on your wear rate.
For your next tires, try the Michelin Defender. Great wear rating, comfortable.
Or, try to buy a tire with wear rating over 600. You can find that rating on the sidewall.

 

[CapriRacer]

To my mind, the largest contributor to tire wear is corners. Why? Because in order to move the mass of the car, a tire has to generate a slip angle - and it's that slip angle that causes most of the wear. Put another way, straight ahead driving is practically free.

I use a metric I call "Turns per mile" That is how many substantially 90 degree turns per how many miles travled. My commute was 10 turns and 10 miles for 1.0 TPM.

Here's how it's calculated

1) Back out of the driveway.
2) Left turn onto main street
3) Left turn onto freeway.
4) Left turn off freeway onto surface street.
5) Right turn
60 Left turn
7) Right turn into parking lot
8) Left turn in parking lot
9 and 10) a 180 degree turn into parking spot.

Please note that gentle turns don't count, So unless the road winds around a lot, you don't count those turns. Mountain driving is different story.

I'll bet there are parts of NH that would qualify for "mountain driving" - even if those are just considered "hills".

 

[supton]

I come up with about 95miles, 15 turns, in that region. Mostly highway, one cloverleaf on the way home.

Backroads driving does have more turning. Lots of, what's it called? chipseal pavement? the cheapo stuff they put down that feels rough. Windy roads too, I think.

Might be the nature of the beast, this region that is, combined with spirited driving. Just want to get a feel for if that is true or not.

 

[HerrStig]

There's a tradeoff between "self centering" feel and tracking and tire wear. A good alignment shop can perhaps split the difference.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Put another way, straight ahead driving is practically free.


This has to assume a very neutral alignment, right? An alignment set up for good handling/response may have a moderate amount of toe, and in this case, the tire will always be in a scrub as it rolls down the road...even a straight road, right?

 

[Kuato]

FWIW, steady state highway driving is easier on tires than stop and go with lots of turning around town.

If you want your tires to last, go with Michelin. They are the longest lasting tires I've ever owned.

Wife's Wrangler is a good example - factory Goodyears were done at only 39k. The set of Michelins we put on after that still have much more than legal tread after 150k of mostly highway driving at 65-70.

I've owned numerous tire brands over the years including Cooper, Continental, Goodyear, off brands from Sears or WM.

 

[teddyboy]

You didn't say what tire you have on the Camry. My wife's 07 is the same generation as your 11. It came with Bridgestone Turanza tires which are not known for delivering even averatge mileage. At around 18K, the tread was down to between 5-6/32nds. Since them I've run Michelins. The H rate version of the Primacy gave us around 42K when they were retired with about 5/32nds. I'm hoping the V rated version of the same tire will do better as the UTOG rating is considerably higher for the V rated Primacy as compared to the H rated.

 

[Carbuff]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

This has to assume a very neutral alignment, right? An alignment set up for good handling/response may have a moderate amount of toe, and in this case, the tire will always be in a scrub as it rolls down the road...even a straight road, right?


Jason is correct, and that is what I meant by suggesting having an alignment done, and explaining what your desired outcome is. A good shop will know which end of the factory specs will achieve that. They will probably mention the possible cosequences, too.


Weight in the trunk, passengers, and sagging springs can result in the feathering you are seeing, as well. My sports car shop manual says to align the car with the weight of two passengers in it.

Speaking of that, If the suspension was ever repaired, the mounting bolts (bushings) need to be tightened at a normal ride height...not with the wheels hanging in the air.

 

[supton]

Camry currently has Michelin Primacy MXV4's, 20kmiles, 6/32's left is what the dealer declared. Don't know what Bridgestone they replaced, but those were 4/32's after 30kmiles.

Just measured mine; after 35kmiles they have 5-6 32's left, or 4mm left showing, on the Nokian enTyre. That doesn't seem too bad; probably 50kmiles total is what I should expect? This is their third summer, and I think they'll go another one, although they might get run this winter I think (scary thought).

 

[faramir9]

Originally Posted By: supton
I know it goes up, but is there a rule of thumb?

I generally cruise at 75-80mph, and have never gotten great tire life. I had Conti Pro-something on my Jetta, and I would have to drive to the wear bars to get 40kmiles. Snow tires seem able to get past 40k--but they flat spot on me around that time (two sets now).

With the Camry not getting past 30k I'm starting to wonder if it's me that is the problem--wife drives the bulk of the miles, but I usually drive the long trips, and at 80 for a few hours at a time. So maybe I'm the one removing all the rubber?

BTW, I get even wear, unless if I over-inflate.


Sounds like driving style might play a role here, but that generation of Jetta is known to eat tires. Friend of mine had a 2000 Jetta VR6, drove it moderately 'spirited' but not crazy---and could not figure out why she had to buy tires every 18 months. I thought she was whining, until she had Pirelli P4s installed, and even those did not last half of the warranted 85K miles. (Though they lasted longer than other tires on that car.)

Don't know if it's suspension-related, or if VW calls for different alignment specs---everything on VWs is "different," it seems---or if it's just a quirk of that model or that generation. (Of which I think your car belongs. Another VW quirk is to have the first run of a new generation and the last run of an old generation share the same model year---as in 2004. Parts-store guys love that.)

Check the alignment, check the air pressure, check for cracks or slow leaks, slow down a few mph and don't corner like Speed Racer. All that might help some---but don't expect to ever get warranted treadlife in an '04 Jetta.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Carbuff

Jason is correct, and that is what I meant by suggesting having an alignment done, and explaining what your desired outcome is. A good shop will know which end of the factory specs will achieve that. They will probably mention the possible cosequences, too.


Weight in the trunk, passengers, and sagging springs can result in the feathering you are seeing, as well. My sports car shop manual says to align the car with the weight of two passengers in it.

Speaking of that, If the suspension was ever repaired, the mounting bolts (bushings) need to be tightened at a normal ride height...not with the wheels hanging in the air.



Jetta has had struts twice, front wheelbearings once, clutch once, and has been aligned thrice... to who knows what spec. Not that long ago, early last summer, was the last time. Rear suspension has got to be getting old, since it's all original, save the shocks; front isn't much better. Camry hasn't been around long enough to have work done. I'm going to be sad if it needs an alignment this soon, but, I guess I can take it in and at least have it checked.

Wouldn't want it aligned with two in it, my car is single occupant these days. Wife's car gets all the miles with two kids in the back.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: faramir9

Sounds like driving style might play a role here, but that generation of Jetta is known to eat tires. Friend of mine had a 2000 Jetta VR6, drove it moderately 'spirited' but not crazy---and could not figure out why she had to buy tires every 18 months. I thought she was whining, until she had Pirelli P4s installed, and even those did not last half of the warranted 85K miles. (Though they lasted longer than other tires on that car.)

Don't know if it's suspension-related, or if VW calls for different alignment specs---everything on VWs is "different," it seems---or if it's just a quirk of that model or that generation. (Of which I think your car belongs. Another VW quirk is to have the first run of a new generation and the last run of an old generation share the same model year---as in 2004. Parts-store guys love that.)

Check the alignment, check the air pressure, check for cracks or slow leaks, slow down a few mph and don't corner like Speed Racer. All that might help some---but don't expect to ever get warranted treadlife in an '04 Jetta.


Interesting. I think when the Jetta goes I'll go to a Corolla or similar. When we had a Saturn and a Civic those seemed to get upwards of 60k on tires; much better life span.

 

[gaijinnv]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. If you're pushing so much air out of the way your MPGs are down vs the speed limit, that force is going through your tires.


You're going to have to explain that one

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: gaijinnv
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. If you're pushing so much air out of the way your MPGs are down vs the speed limit, that force is going through your tires.


You're going to have to explain that one

Engine is working harder, thus, more power is applied to the wheels. If x force is pulling you back, then you have to apply x force to the wheels to pull you forward. Increase air drag, increase power through the wheels.

I'm guessing there are other factors, but high speed tires are designed to deal with higher temps. I do not believe those higher temps are all caused by higher cornering forces. Remember the Bugatti Veyron? The tires reputedly would melt off at top speed--but it was ok, you'd run out of gas before that point.

 

[teddyboy]

Originally Posted By: supton
Camry currently has Michelin Primacy MXV4's, 20kmiles, 6/32's left is what the dealer declared. Don't know what Bridgestone they replaced, but those were 4/32's after 30kmiles.

Just measured mine; after 35kmiles they have 5-6 32's left, or 4mm left showing, on the Nokian enTyre. That doesn't seem too bad; probably 50kmiles total is what I should expect? This is their third summer, and I think they'll go another one, although they might get run this winter I think (scary thought).


I cruise at 75-80 and get considerably better mileage than what you're describing. My volvo has a set of Primacys with 50K on them and they're still at between 6-7/32nd. My wife doesn't do quite as well tire mileage wise as I do. My guess would be that rather than the speed you drive, it's more a product of driving style. I tend to leave a good bit of distance between my car and the car in front of me. That adds up to rarely being on the brakes. She drives closer to the car in front of her (not really tailgating, just closer than me) so she is on and off the brakes considerably more often. She doesn't get as good a tire wear as I do and also wears out brakes more often. I would guess that factors such as this are more responsible for your tire wear than speed.