Starting to get impatient!

[BrianWC]

What's a clean freak to do? Over the past 20k miles on my saab (I got it used in November) I have used the following to "desludge" it.

-1 chemtool flush
-2 courses of arx
-2 changes w/ HDEO
-Redline
-LC20
-Neutra

Now, I have lots of dirty filters and the largest measureable cosmetic change (I have LOTS of photos under the valve cover) was with arx. However, even with arx I still have lots of deposits. My con rod and main bearing caps were still coated with sludge when I removed my oilpan to clean out my pickup screen though. Currently I have Redline in which I spiked w/ LC after about 1000 miles and then, about 600 miles ago added a course of Neutra. Yet, even under the valve cover there are still the same spots where I can take a finger and scoop up little clumps of sludge. They just look like they've been hanging out, completely unaffected...I don't want to keep risking Neutra every change if it does indeed swell seals a bit (according to Bob's tests, it did) and I don't want to keep forking over $40-50 for arx...I guess since I HAVE 24 bottles of Neutra, though...

Depressing....

Frank, if you have a new top secret industrial formula you need a guinea pig for, I'm your man.

 

[bruce381]

run RL and change out at 5-7K for 1-2 times and then look again.

or pull valve cover drop pan and scrub as much gunk off with mineral spirts then re fill with dino, run till hot and dump and refill to get all solvent out.
bruce

 

[BrianWC]

Thanks for the advice Bruce. I have RL in now. I hate to spend money on it again as it doesn't seem to be doing much. Soon after I first put it in, I did notice many of the baked on gunk spots started to have their edges curl, but that's been the extint of it. I'm not worried about the valve cover per say, just what it indicates for the rest of the engine. As I said earlier, I had a nice sludge coat on my bearing caps and I figure if it's still up top, it's still down there as well.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

What kind of oil, filters and OCI did you run on the car over the years, Brian?

 

[BrianWC]

quote:

---

Originally posted by toocrazy2yoo:
What kind of oil, filters and OCI did you run on the car over the years, Brian?

---

As I said earlier, I got it in November. It had 59k miles and I surmise it probably had 10k oil changes as it was a lease car and that was the factory "normal" interval. I imagine it got whatever the saab dealer put in. Even Saab turbo oil (M1) won't last 10k in one of these blocks. Now the recommended interval is 5k.

For the record, I use Supertech filters (with the odd PureOne) and have run: M15W30 EP (1st clean-was told it was okay), Supertech 5W30 dino (arx 1st rinse), Castrol Tection Extra 15W40 (2nd clean and rinse), Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 (drained it when I removed my oilpan and didn't want to reuse it after seeing what was IN my oilpan), odd mix of oils for 1 week while I waited for my Redline, then my current Redline fill.

Again, this is by no means HEAVY sludge. Just sporadic bits here and there up top with a thin coat down below. But that makes me wonder even more why nothing seems to touch it.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Turbo, eh? Auto RX wants to work with dino, if I read correctly. Can you do the ARX on dino for the recommended distance in that car? If so, I've read of worse sludge than you're describing being cleaned up with ARX. But they're all based on using dino, and that stuff can coke up in the turbo, can't it?

I've never used the ARX myself, but you can't argue with that many success stories. This gives me pause on my plans to go 10K oci on the M1 in my stinking little sewing machine Hyundai, though. What's with a SAAB that would cause that, just the long OCI?

Good luck with it

 

[BrianWC]

Oh you'll be fine! Like I said, arx did do a decent amount of cleaning and I had some loaded filters. Yeah, I was scared about the dino but it did fine. Short intervals are the key. The late 90's thru 2003 saabs were very sludge prone due to some last minute changes in the pcv system combined w/ 10k intervals, newer frictionless piston style, different oil cooler thermo, etc. Saab didn't spec full synth for the interval, either. Semi was an option. Can you imagine going that long in a turbo car with pcv problems?

Needless to say, if you can find a low mileage saab block from that era, buy it.

You should be able to run M1 with confidence. Just get an analysis. You should also get a good clean from arx.

 

[kgb007stb]

What was the amount of LC used? When I bought a 100K pathfinder for hauling around the house I used LC to clean it because the car sees about 3K a year at the most. The oil before smelled so bad that I knew it had to cook, when using the recommended 1oz dosage I found out that it was not enough so I upped it to 10% as many here have and my heads are spotless.

 

[BrianWC]

I didn't go that high, though now I have used a lot of Neutra. I was still a little shy about diluting down my 5W30 oil.

 

[Rodbuckler]

BrianWC, have you ever considered redesigning the PCV system? I am modifying my Volvo 230F PCV system to get fresh air flow across and through the valve cover. It will be more difficult with your turbo, but it is worth a try since your PCV system isn't working well now.

 

[Jonny Z]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rodbuckler:
BrianWC, have you ever considered redesigning the PCV system? I am modifying my Volvo 230F PCV system to get fresh air flow across and through the valve cover. It will be more difficult with your turbo, but it is worth a try since your PCV system isn't working well now.

---

You are releasing the blow by gas into the intake right. Because releasing it into ATM is a big no no.

 

[Rodbuckler]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jonny Z:
Because releasing it into ATM is a big no no.

---

The fresh air must come from downstream of the mass air flow sensor, go through the crankcase, then be pulled into the intake downstream of the throttle body (for natural aspiration).

 

[ShortBuSX]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrianWC:
(I have LOTS of photos under the valve cover)

---

Where are the pics?

 

[axjohn]

BrianWC:
I have a much higher mileage saab than you do. Mine has over 200k miles.

Do a high mileage AutoRX treatment. AutoRX, rinse oil, AutoRX, rinse oil. You'll then be fine. Then add LC to your next oil change after the rinse to begin to address the varnish issue.

 

[BrianWC]

quote:

---

Originally posted by axjohn:
BrianWC:
I have a much higher mileage saab than you do. Mine has over 200k miles.

Do a high mileage AutoRX treatment. AutoRX, rinse oil, AutoRX, rinse oil. You'll then be fine. Then add LC to your next oil change after the rinse to begin to address the varnish issue.

---

Uh, no offense, but did you read my original post?

The PCV HAS been redesigned, by the way. I have updated and cleaned it as much as I can. New valves, new hoses, etc.

 

[BrianWC]

BTW, this is my second SAAB and my last one, a 1997 900 turbo, was wrecked at 191k miles. It was in PERFECT condition. It's the 99-03 models that are a bear.

 

[TallPaul]

I ran a similar list of cleanings

-1 Mac's NAPA Engine Flush
-2 courses of arx
-Neutra
-500 miles with a quart of Redline in the mix
-Group III with some Redline added.
-200 mile 5w20 flush

Looking down the oil fill hole, everything looks about the same.

I give up. It really doesn't matter.

 

[Ken2]

It is entirely possible that leased Saab had no oil changes, or maybe just a few with ordinary oil at a quick lube.

Don't fret so. I would have run 3 Auto-Rx cleaning if it was really bad, then continue with the Auto-Rx maintenance dose in syn oil and 5k ODI. I'd use the OEM filter...same filter as the OE filter without the expensive Saab label.


Ken

 

[BrianWC]

Eh, saab filters aren't expensive. I do fret, though, b/c I want everything cleaned out.

 

[Rodbuckler]

Have you tried 5W-20 synth / 15W-40 HDEO blends? The group III and IV oils really tend to sneak into the tight spots, and oils like Delo 400 15W-40 tend to maintain 100% coverage and can handle the filth released. I've had to drain such a mix in less than 1000 miles because of blackness.

I find a synth/HDEO mix works best for final cleanup, if not for overall maintenance of cleaniness. Try a lethal dose of LC once the blackness subsides in your oil. The only things that I have easily removed varnish with are Berryman B12 Chemtool (Solvent) and Castrol SuperClean (Caustic), but not on a running engine of course.