The NEW middle class
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The middle class was outsourced.
The world got a lot smaller. There are now millions of low skill, low education people available who are very willing to work for very low wages. Nothing is going to stop that trend.
Even so there are plenty of service, agricultural, and factory jobs in the U.S. that pay $7-8 hour. These are jobs that require little or no education or any deep skills.
If you want to make more than minimum wage in the US it takes hustle, you have to invest in some getting some advanced education, or other specialized training. This is possible for almost everyone if they want it bad enough.
The US is still the land of huge opportunity for folks with hustle, discipline, excellent work ethic, some smarts, and a strong desire to succeed.
Yes, in the U.S. slackers that have no discipline, little to no education, and a long history of consistently making poor choices in life can't find $25-30/hr low skill factory jobs any longer - too bad, life it done got hard baby. Nobody owns you a living ..that's why its called earning a living.
Oh - and it you do manage to make it and earn a good living, make sure you save 10-20% at a minimum of your income for the future instead of being a dumb bunny and spending every dime you make trying to show off.
Have a plan, hustle your butt off to make it, or fail, end of story. I started working part time jobs when I was 13yo, haven't stopped hustling for last 40 years. I'm sick of the whining and excuses for not making it. Yes its hard, its very hard, and it takes lots of discipline, thought, and planning. But if you are able bodied and not mentally challenged, then you have absolutely no excuses for not being able to earn a good middle class living in the U.S.
Even so there are plenty of service, agricultural, and factory jobs in the U.S. that pay $7-8 hour. These are jobs that require little or no education or any deep skills.
If you want to make more than minimum wage in the US it takes hustle, you have to invest in some getting some advanced education, or other specialized training. This is possible for almost everyone if they want it bad enough.
The US is still the land of huge opportunity for folks with hustle, discipline, excellent work ethic, some smarts, and a strong desire to succeed.
Yes, in the U.S. slackers that have no discipline, little to no education, and a long history of consistently making poor choices in life can't find $25-30/hr low skill factory jobs any longer - too bad, life it done got hard baby. Nobody owns you a living ..that's why its called earning a living.
Oh - and it you do manage to make it and earn a good living, make sure you save 10-20% at a minimum of your income for the future instead of being a dumb bunny and spending every dime you make trying to show off.
Have a plan, hustle your butt off to make it, or fail, end of story. I started working part time jobs when I was 13yo, haven't stopped hustling for last 40 years. I'm sick of the whining and excuses for not making it. Yes its hard, its very hard, and it takes lots of discipline, thought, and planning. But if you are able bodied and not mentally challenged, then you have absolutely no excuses for not being able to earn a good middle class living in the U.S.
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At the same time, no one owes importers, Asia and 3rd world countries the US market to create jobs and revenue for themselves. And no one is owed immigration status.
You do realize many people with college degrees can't find good and relevant jobs?
A lot of the so-called educated and skilled aren't so skilled and valuable really. Besides you can get low cost IT, engineering and healthcare workers abroad. With immigration, outsourcing and importing "skilled workers" are a dime a dozen for the US. Yay!
Some of the best paid positions aren't that valuable just rarer, management, entertainment, healthcare workers funded by insurance premiums, public sector with taxes etc. But if you try hard enough and with enough luck you might just be one that makes a decent income, for now.
You do realize many people with college degrees can't find good and relevant jobs?
A lot of the so-called educated and skilled aren't so skilled and valuable really. Besides you can get low cost IT, engineering and healthcare workers abroad. With immigration, outsourcing and importing "skilled workers" are a dime a dozen for the US. Yay!
Some of the best paid positions aren't that valuable just rarer, management, entertainment, healthcare workers funded by insurance premiums, public sector with taxes etc. But if you try hard enough and with enough luck you might just be one that makes a decent income, for now.
The state of our affairs is going downhill faster than we can lower our standards....
Re-spin those numbers to make bad look good. !!
Re-spin those numbers to make bad look good. !!
Quote:
The world got a lot smaller. There are now millions of low skill, low education people available who are very willing to work for very low wages. Nothing is going to stop that trend.
What? There has always been millions of low skill, poorly educated people willing to work for low wages.
The world is neither smaller or larger than it always was to any significant degree either literally or figuratively.
The trend is of our own making and can be certainly reversed but its going to start at the bottom with the children the same way it started back in the 60's.
The world got a lot smaller. There are now millions of low skill, low education people available who are very willing to work for very low wages. Nothing is going to stop that trend.
What? There has always been millions of low skill, poorly educated people willing to work for low wages.
The world is neither smaller or larger than it always was to any significant degree either literally or figuratively.
The trend is of our own making and can be certainly reversed but its going to start at the bottom with the children the same way it started back in the 60's.
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
The world got a lot smaller. There are now millions of low skill, low education people available who are very willing to work for very low wages. Nothing is going to stop that trend.
Even so there are plenty of service, agricultural, and factory jobs in the U.S. that pay $7-8 hour. These are jobs that require little or no education or any deep skills.
If you want to make more than minimum wage in the US it takes hustle, you have to invest in some getting some advanced education, or other specialized training. This is possible for almost everyone if they want it bad enough.
The US is still the land of huge opportunity for folks with hustle, discipline, excellent work ethic, some smarts, and a strong desire to succeed.
Yes, in the U.S. slackers that have no discipline, little to no education, and a long history of consistently making poor choices in life can't find $25-30/hr low skill factory jobs any longer - too bad, life it done got hard baby. Nobody owns you a living ..that's why its called earning a living.
Oh - and it you do manage to make it and earn a good living, make sure you save 10-20% at a minimum of your income for the future instead of being a dumb bunny and spending every dime you make trying to show off.
Have a plan, hustle your butt off to make it, or fail, end of story. Yes its hard, its very hard, and it takes lots of discipline, thought, and planning. But if you are able bodied and not mentally challenged, then you have absolutely no excuses for not being able to earn a good middle class living in the U.S.
This. I do not want to hear about how there arent jobs available when I have had 2 positions at least available at my location since the last three months. Ive had 5 applicants, 3 never called back when I called to set up an interview, 1 scheduled but didnt show up, and the other failed the background/drug w/e check Goodyear does for their employees. Remember this isnt minimum wage, its entry level General Service position with access to training, health benefits and future career opportunities. They usually get anywhere between $9:00 ~ $10.00/hr starting pay with merit raises in the future. You'd think I would get at least 1 application a day if there was so much unemployment in this country and such a huge lack of good jobs.
The world got a lot smaller. There are now millions of low skill, low education people available who are very willing to work for very low wages. Nothing is going to stop that trend.
Even so there are plenty of service, agricultural, and factory jobs in the U.S. that pay $7-8 hour. These are jobs that require little or no education or any deep skills.
If you want to make more than minimum wage in the US it takes hustle, you have to invest in some getting some advanced education, or other specialized training. This is possible for almost everyone if they want it bad enough.
The US is still the land of huge opportunity for folks with hustle, discipline, excellent work ethic, some smarts, and a strong desire to succeed.
Yes, in the U.S. slackers that have no discipline, little to no education, and a long history of consistently making poor choices in life can't find $25-30/hr low skill factory jobs any longer - too bad, life it done got hard baby. Nobody owns you a living ..that's why its called earning a living.
Oh - and it you do manage to make it and earn a good living, make sure you save 10-20% at a minimum of your income for the future instead of being a dumb bunny and spending every dime you make trying to show off.
Have a plan, hustle your butt off to make it, or fail, end of story. Yes its hard, its very hard, and it takes lots of discipline, thought, and planning. But if you are able bodied and not mentally challenged, then you have absolutely no excuses for not being able to earn a good middle class living in the U.S.
This. I do not want to hear about how there arent jobs available when I have had 2 positions at least available at my location since the last three months. Ive had 5 applicants, 3 never called back when I called to set up an interview, 1 scheduled but didnt show up, and the other failed the background/drug w/e check Goodyear does for their employees. Remember this isnt minimum wage, its entry level General Service position with access to training, health benefits and future career opportunities. They usually get anywhere between $9:00 ~ $10.00/hr starting pay with merit raises in the future. You'd think I would get at least 1 application a day if there was so much unemployment in this country and such a huge lack of good jobs.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: Gabe
$10 a day is NOT middle class.
I think it's a NEW definition of Middle class. Not 'our' traditional one.
Yep and we are heading there fast with minimum wage part time jobs with draconian taxes and mandatory health insurance cost.
Yes sir unemployment is down they fail to say these new jobs are 20hr a week minimum wage slave jobs.
McDonalds, Burger King, Walmart and Harbour Freight are the new economic boom. Course every student has to have a college degree in one thing or another to work in the new high tech jobs.
The Chinese and Indians are only doing manufacturing jobs Americans don't want or wont do lets not forget that. Food Stamps, free Obama phone anyone?
Its not that we dont want or wont do manufacturing jobs, its more that they were regulated out of the country. Dont pollute here and save the planet but go ahead and pollute "over there"
Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: Gabe
$10 a day is NOT middle class.
I think it's a NEW definition of Middle class. Not 'our' traditional one.
Yep and we are heading there fast with minimum wage part time jobs with draconian taxes and mandatory health insurance cost.
Yes sir unemployment is down they fail to say these new jobs are 20hr a week minimum wage slave jobs.
McDonalds, Burger King, Walmart and Harbour Freight are the new economic boom. Course every student has to have a college degree in one thing or another to work in the new high tech jobs.
The Chinese and Indians are only doing manufacturing jobs Americans don't want or wont do lets not forget that. Food Stamps, free Obama phone anyone?
Its not that we dont want or wont do manufacturing jobs, its more that they were regulated out of the country. Dont pollute here and save the planet but go ahead and pollute "over there"
That was a sarcastic comment touted by certain groups in the US.
Darn straight we have regulated manufacturing right out of the country but that was the agenda all along.
Take a look at the Global Warming thread to get some idea on how successful they have been at perpetrating the hoax and forwarding the agenda.
I own a business and property in a small city in central MA.
At one time this was a thriving community with good schools, skilled jobs, good housing and a heavy manufacturing base.
There were 13 paper mills, leather and cotton mills, aluminum plant, steel foundry, lock manufacturer, saw and steel company, gun manufacturer and over a dozen machine shops.
This little city was flush with money and had a highly skilled work force then one woman from a nearby town threw the manure in fan and caused a $hit storm the likes of i have never seen.
The mills were polluting the river (true enough) and she wanted it cleaned up. She lobbied the city and state and eventually the feds to pass ordnances and regulations.
They gave the mills 1 year to install waste water treatment plants (this was in the 70's long before this was common).
The mills said it would take three years to complete and presented a 3 year multi million dollar plan, she went bonkers and got their plan thrown out.
The mills closed and moved out, the supporting industries closed. Population dropped from 70,000 to 30,000 remaining industry lost its work force so they shut the doors also.
Today its primarily section 8 housing and welfare cases. The high school that supported a population of 70,000 all of a sudden became too small for the 30,000 official population, half of the students now are illegals and undocumented.
The streets are some of the worst in the state with the second highest energy rates in the country because the energy company got it through that they could add their losses from subsidized energy for the poor on the regular rate payer.
The city is so broke they cannot afford to turn most street light on yet they can afford a million dollars for astro turf for the high school football field.
Water rates have doubled because the city got fined for dumping raw sewage in the river because they couldn't afford to maintain the waste water plant, they just passed the fine off on the rate payers.
Main st is gone, most businesses have shut the doors. It is one of the poorest and poorly educated small cities in the country with a totally unskilled work force.
But hey the river is somewhat clean if the city itself didn't foul it.
I make money by renting property but its getting a tough, the quality of tenants is dropping so its time to unload.
Here is the best part. In the small town this woman is from they want to erect a statue of her on the common as the woman who saved the river.
It should say the woman who single handedly destroyed a thriving community.
Darn straight we have regulated manufacturing right out of the country but that was the agenda all along.
Take a look at the Global Warming thread to get some idea on how successful they have been at perpetrating the hoax and forwarding the agenda.
I own a business and property in a small city in central MA.
At one time this was a thriving community with good schools, skilled jobs, good housing and a heavy manufacturing base.
There were 13 paper mills, leather and cotton mills, aluminum plant, steel foundry, lock manufacturer, saw and steel company, gun manufacturer and over a dozen machine shops.
This little city was flush with money and had a highly skilled work force then one woman from a nearby town threw the manure in fan and caused a $hit storm the likes of i have never seen.
The mills were polluting the river (true enough) and she wanted it cleaned up. She lobbied the city and state and eventually the feds to pass ordnances and regulations.
They gave the mills 1 year to install waste water treatment plants (this was in the 70's long before this was common).
The mills said it would take three years to complete and presented a 3 year multi million dollar plan, she went bonkers and got their plan thrown out.
The mills closed and moved out, the supporting industries closed. Population dropped from 70,000 to 30,000 remaining industry lost its work force so they shut the doors also.
Today its primarily section 8 housing and welfare cases. The high school that supported a population of 70,000 all of a sudden became too small for the 30,000 official population, half of the students now are illegals and undocumented.
The streets are some of the worst in the state with the second highest energy rates in the country because the energy company got it through that they could add their losses from subsidized energy for the poor on the regular rate payer.
The city is so broke they cannot afford to turn most street light on yet they can afford a million dollars for astro turf for the high school football field.
Water rates have doubled because the city got fined for dumping raw sewage in the river because they couldn't afford to maintain the waste water plant, they just passed the fine off on the rate payers.
Main st is gone, most businesses have shut the doors. It is one of the poorest and poorly educated small cities in the country with a totally unskilled work force.
But hey the river is somewhat clean if the city itself didn't foul it.
I make money by renting property but its getting a tough, the quality of tenants is dropping so its time to unload.
Here is the best part. In the small town this woman is from they want to erect a statue of her on the common as the woman who saved the river.
It should say the woman who single handedly destroyed a thriving community.
There are jobs to be had around here ... but not enough for everyone that is unemployed.
There are some jobs cleaning, etc. Majority of people that are unemployed do not want them because they are "physical" or "dirty" ... We have a lot of refugees from other countries. Most of them work jobs that the locals wouldn't want.
Don't expect my generation to do anything about it! I'm unfortunately part of the entitlement generation.
However, as long as the economy holds out, people that are willing to make it work should be able to make it work for themselves.
There are some jobs cleaning, etc. Majority of people that are unemployed do not want them because they are "physical" or "dirty" ... We have a lot of refugees from other countries. Most of them work jobs that the locals wouldn't want.
Don't expect my generation to do anything about it! I'm unfortunately part of the entitlement generation.
However, as long as the economy holds out, people that are willing to make it work should be able to make it work for themselves.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Are you really talking about Groton, MA? When did it become Lawrence? I think you are exaggerating just a little bit!
No im not talking about Groton, thats where the woman is from. I am talking about Fitchburg and there is no exaggeration!
Vikas come on man you know there were never 13 paper mills in Groton and Groton has a municipal electric company.
Are you really talking about Groton, MA? When did it become Lawrence? I think you are exaggerating just a little bit!
No im not talking about Groton, thats where the woman is from. I am talking about Fitchburg and there is no exaggeration!
Vikas come on man you know there were never 13 paper mills in Groton and Groton has a municipal electric company.
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Obviously some of you folks don;t understand how hard it is to get someone a work visa to come into the US for a high tech job. I basically have to prove there is no one available in the US and prove that I have searched for at least 3 months before I can get an H1B VISA for a tech worker. I have had US tech jobs posted and have had no qualified US citizen takers for months.
Yes lots of people in the US are still going to college and getting some useless degree and then they are disappointed that a company doesn't run to give them a job with their [censored] unimpressive 3.2 GPA and their newly minted fairly useless english, marketing, psychology, history, sociology, etc. degree. Apparently they can't be bothered to put in the hard work to thoroughly research their potential education (or vocational training) before they spend years and big $$$ getting a degree.
Want a great job and a great career? Find out beforehand what valuable skills and degree (or technical training in a Voc school) are in high demand before attending school - and then graduate with highest honors. Do that and see what happens - hard work, discipline,good decisions, and planning produces success. And whining and making silly uninformed excuses about how its all the "guv-a-mints" fault produces nothing.
Yes lots of people in the US are still going to college and getting some useless degree and then they are disappointed that a company doesn't run to give them a job with their [censored] unimpressive 3.2 GPA and their newly minted fairly useless english, marketing, psychology, history, sociology, etc. degree. Apparently they can't be bothered to put in the hard work to thoroughly research their potential education (or vocational training) before they spend years and big $$$ getting a degree.
Want a great job and a great career? Find out beforehand what valuable skills and degree (or technical training in a Voc school) are in high demand before attending school - and then graduate with highest honors. Do that and see what happens - hard work, discipline,good decisions, and planning produces success. And whining and making silly uninformed excuses about how its all the "guv-a-mints" fault produces nothing.
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Originally Posted By: cashmoney
Obviously some of you folks don;t understand how hard it is to get someone a work visa to come into the US for a high tech job. I basically have to prove there is no one available in the US and prove that I have searched for at least 3 months before I can get an H1B VISA for a tech worker. I have had US tech jobs posted and have had no qualified US citizen takers for months.
Yes lots of people in the US are still going to college and getting some useless degree and then they are disappointed that a company doesn't run to give them a job with their [censored] unimpressive 3.2 GPA and their newly minted fairly useless english, marketing, psychology, history, sociology, etc. degree. Apparently they can't be bothered to put in the hard work to thoroughly research their potential education (or vocational training) before they spend years and big $$$ getting a degree.
Want a great job and a great career? Find out beforehand what valuable skills and degree (or technical training in a Voc school) are in high demand before attending school - and then graduate with highest honors. Do that and see what happens - hard work, discipline,good decisions, and planning produces success. And whining and making silly uninformed excuses about how its all the "guv-a-mints" fault produces nothing.
Baloney.
As someone who worked in the industry with other employees who are on H1B, I can tell you that you are just not paying high enough of a salary to get them in or high enough of a salary to hire US residents for the job.
Yes, You Texan has low cost of living, but that doesn't means the foreigners are willing to live there and make low salary too when better alternative with higher pays are around.
BTW, since when is 3.2GPA in college unimpressive? That tells you that you are the problem of not finding people working for you.
Obviously some of you folks don;t understand how hard it is to get someone a work visa to come into the US for a high tech job. I basically have to prove there is no one available in the US and prove that I have searched for at least 3 months before I can get an H1B VISA for a tech worker. I have had US tech jobs posted and have had no qualified US citizen takers for months.
Yes lots of people in the US are still going to college and getting some useless degree and then they are disappointed that a company doesn't run to give them a job with their [censored] unimpressive 3.2 GPA and their newly minted fairly useless english, marketing, psychology, history, sociology, etc. degree. Apparently they can't be bothered to put in the hard work to thoroughly research their potential education (or vocational training) before they spend years and big $$$ getting a degree.
Want a great job and a great career? Find out beforehand what valuable skills and degree (or technical training in a Voc school) are in high demand before attending school - and then graduate with highest honors. Do that and see what happens - hard work, discipline,good decisions, and planning produces success. And whining and making silly uninformed excuses about how its all the "guv-a-mints" fault produces nothing.
Baloney.
As someone who worked in the industry with other employees who are on H1B, I can tell you that you are just not paying high enough of a salary to get them in or high enough of a salary to hire US residents for the job.
Yes, You Texan has low cost of living, but that doesn't means the foreigners are willing to live there and make low salary too when better alternative with higher pays are around.
BTW, since when is 3.2GPA in college unimpressive? That tells you that you are the problem of not finding people working for you.
Originally Posted By: 95busa
Share? No thanks. Work hard and take what is yours. Anything else is excuses. Losers make excuses, winners are committed.
The problem is, and has always been, on the definition of working hard and what is yours.
Slave owners in the south would think working hard means 12 hours out in the field every day and then 6 hours in the mills, and what is "yours" is 3 meals a day and a bed.
Union workers in the 70s would probably think $25/hr plus retirement at 50 yrs old + full salary payment and medical coverage till you are dead is "yours", and working 8 hours shift and going to work on time every day is "working hard".
The job market says it is probably in the middle somewhere in the US, but the job market is very different here vs a 3rd world one when their alternative is $700 / year from their family farm.
Share? No thanks. Work hard and take what is yours. Anything else is excuses. Losers make excuses, winners are committed.
The problem is, and has always been, on the definition of working hard and what is yours.
Slave owners in the south would think working hard means 12 hours out in the field every day and then 6 hours in the mills, and what is "yours" is 3 meals a day and a bed.
Union workers in the 70s would probably think $25/hr plus retirement at 50 yrs old + full salary payment and medical coverage till you are dead is "yours", and working 8 hours shift and going to work on time every day is "working hard".
The job market says it is probably in the middle somewhere in the US, but the job market is very different here vs a 3rd world one when their alternative is $700 / year from their family farm.
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Do that and see what happens - hard work, discipline,good decisions, and planning produces success. And whining and making silly uninformed excuses about how its all the "guv-a-mints" fault produces nothing.
You forget things like affirmative action and employment equity programs.
Going into that any deeper is getting too political.
You are stating the obvious in the ideal world but the condition the US is in at the moment is far from ideal. A lot of things work flawlessly in theory.
Do that and see what happens - hard work, discipline,good decisions, and planning produces success. And whining and making silly uninformed excuses about how its all the "guv-a-mints" fault produces nothing.
You forget things like affirmative action and employment equity programs.
Going into that any deeper is getting too political.
You are stating the obvious in the ideal world but the condition the US is in at the moment is far from ideal. A lot of things work flawlessly in theory.
Originally Posted By: 95busa
Share? No thanks. Work hard and take what is yours. Anything else is excuses. Losers make excuses, winners are committed.
That sounds horribly lonely, inhumane, selfish and self-centred. I certainly do not want to craft my society based on those ideals, else we all become losers.
Share? No thanks. Work hard and take what is yours. Anything else is excuses. Losers make excuses, winners are committed.
That sounds horribly lonely, inhumane, selfish and self-centred. I certainly do not want to craft my society based on those ideals, else we all become losers.
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: 95busa
Share? No thanks. Work hard and take what is yours. Anything else is excuses. Losers make excuses, winners are committed.
That sounds horribly lonely, inhumane, selfish and self-centred. I certainly do not want to craft my society based on those ideals, else we all become losers.
Yeah but in the context of inter-societies, Asia has that stance. They are doing everything they can to monopolize our markets and maintain their own.
Originally Posted By: 95busa
Share? No thanks. Work hard and take what is yours. Anything else is excuses. Losers make excuses, winners are committed.
That sounds horribly lonely, inhumane, selfish and self-centred. I certainly do not want to craft my society based on those ideals, else we all become losers.
Yeah but in the context of inter-societies, Asia has that stance. They are doing everything they can to monopolize our markets and maintain their own.
The middle class is shrinking.
A town near here had a Pulp mill, it provided a lot of well paying jobs in the 70's, The town smelt of rotting cabbages (locals used to call it 'the smell of money') and the mill fall-out would take the paint off cars, but not a health hazard they claimed.
But that was then.
Now, we still have the mill but it's clean, highly mechanized and you can count the full time employees on your fingers.
They threaten to close it every few years unless the city cuts their tax burden. They claim they are no longer competitive except when (world) pulp prices are high.
Mill in Malaysia will most likely force it to close within 10 years.
BUT, WHAT IS THE ANSWER!
'The cat is out of the bag' China and India and the developing world will not Go Away!
Do we build an economic wall?
No foreign goods come in, no money goes out (and vice versa)
Our skilled personnel are made to STAY in our country!
How long do we keep the door closed?
But that was then.
Now, we still have the mill but it's clean, highly mechanized and you can count the full time employees on your fingers.
They threaten to close it every few years unless the city cuts their tax burden. They claim they are no longer competitive except when (world) pulp prices are high.
Mill in Malaysia will most likely force it to close within 10 years.
BUT, WHAT IS THE ANSWER!
'The cat is out of the bag' China and India and the developing world will not Go Away!
Do we build an economic wall?
No foreign goods come in, no money goes out (and vice versa)
Our skilled personnel are made to STAY in our country!
How long do we keep the door closed?
- Status
