Lucas Hot Rod and Classic oil

[ff6849]

I have tried several attempts to search this product from Lucas Oil Hot Rod and Classic Car motor oil, I have a fresh rebiuld 1968 440 with a flat tappet cam in a 1972 ‘Cuda, does anyone have any experience with this product.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUC-10683-1

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[440Magnum]

You won't find many fans of Lucas motor oils here. The oil analyses I've seen are pretty poor, especially for a "boutique" oil. I'd pick Redline, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Joe Gibbs, Roush, or an HDEO (Rotella, Delvac, Delo, etc.) before Lucas personally. The volatility was through the roof on a Lucas sample that PQIA analyzed, for example.

Congrats on the 440, by the way- as you can tell by my sig I bleed little Pentastar-shaped blood cells. Two running 440s, two more in pieces, a nest of Torqueflites, two 383s (one complete, one shortblock) and a whole lot of little bits and pieces as well as a few Mopars not currently roadworthy are gradually sinking my workshop into the earth.

IMO, the deciding factor for oil in a big-block Mopar comes down to:
1) what cam lift and valve spring pressures are you running?
2) what oil pump (std or high-volume and you better tell me you have a hardened oil pump drive shaft either way!)
3) Bearing clearances.

If you're running a cam like a 60s stocker Mganum/TNT/Commando cam, then you'll be fine with over-the-counter oil after initial breakin. Use a good break-in oil like Joe Gibbs Racing break-in oil just to be safe.

The oil pump volume and bearing clearances determine the viscosity. I prefer not to run anything over a 40-weight in mine, and anything with around 1000 PPM of ZDDP is fine for a broken-in stocker or slightly wilder cam. Diesel engine oils in 5w40 or 10w30 grade qualify, as does Mobil 1 0w40, but NOT Pennzoil Ultra 0w40- its designed for the roller-cam SRT engines.

Only go with a heavier oil if you've got a pretty radical cam and plenty of bearing clearance.

Welcome aboard!!

 

[ff6849]

Thanks for the info,

The motor is a stock bottom end about 9-10 to 1 compression, I am running the Extreme Energy Comp cam (Duration 274/296, Lift .488/.491), with Hughes roller rockers, cast iron 915 heads with some bowl work,1 7/8 long tube headers, 2500stall 727, with a 3.55 8 ¾ sure grip. It’s a very nice warmed up 440 nothing too radical about 475hp.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: ff6849
Thanks for the info,

The motor is a stock bottom end about 9-10 to 1 compression, I am running the Extreme Energy Comp cam (Duration 274/296, Lift .488/.491), with Hughes roller rockers, cast iron 915 heads with some bowl work,1 7/8 long tube headers, 2500stall 727, with a 3.55 8 ¾ sure grip. It’s a very nice warmed up 440 nothing too radical about 475hp.


Sweet. You built what I SHOULD have built for my '66. I went with the reproduction Magnum cam, open-chamber heads and closer to 10:1 compression, and its just a bit archaic. Makes things too octane-hungry compared to a more modern cam grind and the faster burn rate from the "squish" area of a closed-chamber head, soI can't dial in the timing it would like when I run premium pump gas (most of the time). My biggest regret on that engine was using a set of Keith Black Hypereutectic pistons that had been on the shelf for almost a decade when I put the motor together in '05. Too early in the Hypereutectic tech development, with LOTS of piston slap that they've fixed with redesigned skirts and coatings on newer pistons.... But 20k miles on it and not a hiccup, so can't complain too loudly.

My 69 is the stock 440 Magnum engine it came with... VIN stamping and all. I did re-work the heads (hardened seats, Fel-Pro gaskets to drop the compression a tick) and roll in new rod and main bearing shells back in the 1990s, but never lifted the shortblock out of the chassis or dropped a piston out of a hole- the block still had crosshatch at 140k miles when I had the heads off. And frankly, it'll still run as well or better than the one I built up for the '66. Chrysler knew how to put a package together back then.

 

[CATERHAM]

Yes we are not fans of Lucas products here. Many of their oils are below average even compared to the cheapest OTC oils, but that may not apply to all their oils.
Here is the PDS of their 10W-40:

http://www.lucasoil.com/images/medialibrary/87F666AA25E0E2E9D64393ED8DFD95BD.pdf

That oil contain a lot of phos' at 1900 ppm.
440Magnum can address whether that much ZDDP is close to necessary for your car. I'd say no.

 

[NHGUY]

Its yay time anytime someone leans toward Chrysler... Those GM guys are just too plentiful as it is.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Its yay time anytime someone leans toward Chrysler... Those GM guys are just too plentiful as it is.


When they recall my Jeep for a gas tank skid plate, and the poor Teves calipers and the poorly designed piston skirts and the 331 head that cracks. And the multiple sets of pressure sensor and pressure governor in the transmission.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Donald


When they recall my Jeep for a gas tank skid plate, and the poor Teves calipers and the poorly designed piston skirts and the 331 head that cracks. And the multiple sets of pressure sensor and pressure governor in the transmission.


You DO realize you're complaining about a 12+ year old vehicle... designed largely by AMC in the first place. I mean... seriously? How bad could it have been?

But that aside, the Chrysler of 2013 has precious little to do with the Chrysler of 2001, and neither of those Chryslers has a darned thing to do with the Chrysler that designed the worlds best big-block V8 engines that we're talking about in this thread. ;-)

 

[72Cude426]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: Donald


When they recall my Jeep for a gas tank skid plate, and the poor Teves calipers and the poorly designed piston skirts and the 331 head that cracks. And the multiple sets of pressure sensor and pressure governor in the transmission.


You DO realize you're complaining about a 12+ year old vehicle... designed largely by AMC in the first place. I mean... seriously? How bad could it have been?

But that aside, the Chrysler of 2013 has precious little to do with the Chrysler of 2001, and neither of those Chryslers has a darned thing to do with the Chrysler that designed the worlds best big-block V8 engines that we're talking about in this thread. ;-)



+1

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Yes we are not fans of Lucas products here. Many of their oils are below average even compared to the cheapest OTC oils, but that may not apply to all their oils.
Here is the PDS of their 10W-40:

http://www.lucasoil.com/images/medialibrary/87F666AA25E0E2E9D64393ED8DFD95BD.pdf

That oil contain a lot of phos' at 1900 ppm.
440Magnum can address whether that much ZDDP is close to necessary for your car. I'd say no.



I like to see between 800 and 1000 PPM of ZN and P in the oils I run in my big-blocks. Mine are already well broken-in, and so cam failure is pretty unlikely even if I ran a ~600 PPM oil. You have to remember that those oils DO have other additives that are designed to replace ZDDP... but ZDDP is such a proven chemistry that I think builders and operators of vintage engines will want to continue to see it in pretty large doses, especially for break-in. (FWIW, I think anything over ~1500 PPM is pretty much a waste in ANY engine...)

For the OP as I alluded to earlier, I'd break-in with a high-ZDDP lube designed specifically for that purpose (Joe Gibbs oil pops up very often in this context- I've never used it because it didn't exist when I built my last engine) and then probably run an HDEO like Rotella T6 synthetic. There's nothing wrong with Royal Purple's non-API oils, Amsoil, Redline (probably the best of the lot IMO), Brad Penn, etc., its just that HDEOs and particularly Rotella T6 are so easy to get and relatively inexpensive. In my day job, I always design things around commonly used standards when I can and only go "exotic" when there is a REAL performance advantage. And I think the same applies with oils for old engines.