Opinion on Fram Ultra and royal purple

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If you are going to pay more for a premium filter, maybe finding a sale can help defray the cost. I personally would run a PureOne for 10k miles that cost me about $3 and some change with a sale and 40% discount. That is with a known engine and non-severe use such as continuous short trips, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Yeah, and I suppose there are some who would rather pay $6 more NOT to have "FRAM" on the can. Oh well!


Absolutely! Peace of mind is a big factor for many of us and I want NOTHING in my vehicle made by Fram.
 
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Originally Posted By: kenpoed
Im interested in a 10k oci. I wanted to get some thoughts on the fram ultra and royal purple filters


Fram Ultra = good stats on paper I have read but they are made by Fram so it is a big negative for many of us. I wouldn't tocuh one as a free gift. Too many years of lousy junk filters from them to make me ever want to use one( or trust a fiilter with that name on it )no matter how good others say they are or how cheap they are.

Royal Purple = on paper another excellent filter. RP filters, unlike the Ultras, are made by a quality company( Champion Labs )for a quality company( RP ).

I have run the RP filters since they 1st came out and am very happy with them. For 10K OCI's if you are worried about the cost you could look at the new Purolator Synthetic filters which are about $5 cheaper than the RP ones. Depending on your application the Bosch Distance Plus filters may be $5 or so cheaper too( some are as $$$ as the RP filters ).
 
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Originally Posted By: 2cool
Fram ultra, good. RP, to me is a lot of $ for unknown benefit. It isn't a BAD oil, just that I've never been sure of the benefit for the extra money.


Ah me, even when the question is about FILTERS people still can't resist bad mouthing RP oil. Even in a thread about a FRAM product.
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Hemi, your attitude about Fram is just the same as the attitude of the RP haters you and I have railed against since we came on the board. In my mind, you lose a lot of luster on your (purple) armor by taking this attitude.

The RP is a fine filter. An excellent filter! Made by Champ Labs, which is now a part of the Fram Group and is being slowly absorbed and consolidated by it, so the RP filter you know and love today may not be the one of tomorrow. That might be for the better or the worse. Time will tell.

The Ultra needs to be judged on it's own. I won't attempt to talk you out of your attitude about the less expensive Frams (even though I think your judgements are too harsh). I have two Ultras here cut open and I have a RP cut open. Judging solely by construction quality, there is not much to set them apart. "On paper" their specs are virtually equal too. The main difference is in the price. To me get a filter of equal quality to the RP for $6 less is a no brainer and choosing otherwise is simply using other organs besides the brain to make the choice.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Hemi, your attitude about Fram is just the same as the attitude of the RP haters you and I have railed against since we came on the board. In my mind, you lose a lot of luster on your (purple) armor by taking this attitude.


WRONG! Most of the RP haters here have never used RP oil even once. Most seem to hate on it, and form opinions on it, based solely on the price. Generally the hate and bashing has no actual foundation regarding the actual product returning poor performance for the poster. On the other hand I have lost an engine to a Fram oil filter plus I sold Fram oil filters for YEARS and saw many problems with them. I don't trust that company to make even a standard oil filter of any quality never mind a premium filter that actually is as good as the claims.

Maybe the Ultra is the best darn filter out there? I don't know. I just won't use it based on the company behind it and the personal history I have with that company. In fairness and full disclosure I will, and do, use Fram air filters and Cabin filters although I try and get Purolator when I can. I will NOT run an oil filter from that company ever again however. Based on an actual lost engine, the problems I saw and poor repuatation they had with the mechanics I dealt with when selling them, I just won't use one again.

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
The RP is a fine filter. An excellent filter! Made by Champ Labs, which is now a part of the Fram Group and is being slowly absorbed and consolidated by it, so the RP filter you know and love today may not be the one of tomorrow. That might be for the better or the worse. Time will tell.


I knew Champ Labs had been sold but I did not know( don't remember hearing it anyway? )the new owners had anything to do with Fram? It "shouldn't" matter however as the RP filter is made to RP's spec's. RP contracts Champ Labs to make the filters for them to their(RP's) spec's. It is not a filter made by Champ Labs they sell to other companies that RP buys and relabels the way you see with Napa and Wix. RP decides the quality level of the filter. Now, if the new owners of Champ Labs cut corners on the RP spec's or their standards of providing the customer the filter spec's they pay for falters I am sure RP will find another filter mfg to make them. If not I would swap to something else( assuming I knew problems were happening ).

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
The Ultra needs to be judged on it's own. I won't attempt to talk you out of your attitude about the less expensive Frams (even though I think your judgements are too harsh). I have two Ultras here cut open and I have a RP cut open. Judging solely by construction quality, there is not much to set them apart. "On paper" their specs are virtually equal too. The main difference is in the price. To me get a filter of equal quality to the RP for $6 less is a no brainer and choosing otherwise is simply using other organs besides the brain to make the choice.


It isn't about price for me as it is so many on here. So your stance that an Ultra is $5 or $6 less than an RP and may be/is as good as the RP doesn't mean squat diddly to me because of the company the spec'd and mfg'd the Ultra. Just takes them right out of it for me. You seem to know about me so you should know price is never the sole factor with me. I will gladly pay a little more for a product that gives me peace of mind if I can't find a product for less that does the same. My opinions of Fram oil filters aren't all based on internet heresay either the way so many opinions on here seem to be formed about RP.

It is just your opinion( re: I am too harsh on Fram ). Again, I have personal bad experience with Fram including the loss of an engine in one of my own vehicles using a Fram filter( OCOD ). I will use Fram products just not their oil filters. I can not get past the mfg of the Ultra to judge it on it's own meritts. Fram lost any trust with me years ago and there is no getting it back. Too many other options out there that are as good or better, and the same $$$/less/only a bit more for me to choose from to ever use a Fram oil filter again.

Premium Filters available to me for my Jeep( current AAP prices off web site )...

RP = $15.00( not sold at AAP so PepBoys & AZ price )
K&N = $17.00
Mobil 1 = $13.00
Bosch D+ = $13.50
Purolator Synthetic = $13.00
Fram Ultra( XG10060 ) = $10.00 ( NOTE - not available anywhere locally nor on the main part store web sites I can deal with. Can order at Walmart )

You are certainly free to use any filter you wish. When people ask for opinions of things I will give mine. When it comes to fram oil filters my opinion, with a lot of personal experience to base the opinion on( unlike so many RP bashers ), is to avoid them at all costs. Certainly at $10 for the fram and only having to spend $3-$5 more for a brand I trust that also has a premium fiilter I don't see the reason to even consider an Ultra. Again, if it works for you go for it.
 
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Hate to say it, but the FRAM Ultra is an exceptional filter for the money. I highly doubt you would gain anything by running the more expensive RP filter.

I'm surprised KevGuy has not chimed in yet...
 
Originally Posted By: sw99
Hate to say it, but the FRAM Ultra is an exceptional filter for the money. I highly doubt you would gain anything by running the more expensive RP filter.

I'm surprised KevGuy has not chimed in yet...

It's not an orange filter so he's confused.
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Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: sw99
Hate to say it, but the FRAM Ultra is an exceptional filter for the money. I highly doubt you would gain anything by running the more expensive RP filter.

I'm surprised KevGuy has not chimed in yet...

It's not an orange filter so he's confused.
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Not confused at all. I don't like nor wish to use Fram oil filters. If KevGuy is that Fram employee that posts here he best mind his business and not start anything with me. My car, my choice, and that is the end of it.

One huge personality flaw that many BITOG members seem to have is their obsession with price. I am glad to say I am not afflicted with this disorder. I do 2 OC's a year tops so if I want to spend $10 more to use RP filters so what. Actually, I have mainly been getting the RP filter as part of a RP oil w/ RP filter deal and the filter ends up costing much less than the regular $14.99.

Maybe RP filters are not any better than the Fram Ultra's, BUT, I sure as heck feel better about the one from RP than the one from Fram.
 
Originally Posted By: Grimlock1973
I've been using Fram ultra on my car for 2 oil changes now and would highly recommend it! My car used to have terrible startup rattle with the OEM filter but ever since I switched over to the ultra no more nasty rattle! I currently run Pennzoil ultra 5w 30 and the Fram ultra filter. My OCI is 7000 miles since I drive in terrible city stop and go traffic.


what car do you have?
 
my issue with the Fram Ultra and most other filters is bypass located on top, right now I think the Motorcraft S series might be the way to go as bypass design may be far more important than some super-duper media which is likely more restrictive at startup.

Mobil 1 filters (and identical K&N and very similar RP) also have this better bottom mounted bypass design.

All 4 filters mentioned have silicon ADBV.
 
Some points to make:

1) Synthetic media, even at a higher efficiency, flows better than cellulose or blended. That's one reason why it's becoming so prevalent... a "best of both worlds" scenario.

2) Do you mean base end bypass? If so:

a) IN THEORY, it's better but in practice, it doesn't matter much. This according to many in the filter industry. We like to debate what's "best" and that's fine but the scenarios in which "best" matters is only a tiny fraction of the real world. The location of the bypass is only important when or if the oil filyer bypasses. I started wondering how often that happened and when I interviewed a number of oil filter folks for THIS and other outlets, I discovered that bypass is "infrequent" (a quote from one engineer) for most people. There are situations that make it more common. The experts wouldn't pin down anything better than "infrequent" because it can vary from application to application so I installed a differential pressure monitoring setup onto my own truck to see for myself. I am running oil that is at least a grade heavier than spec'ed for my truck and thus far, even nearing 15K miles on a P1 filter, the engine seldom reaches the DP where bypass begins. When it does, it involves one of the following situations; cold start and high revs; extremely high revs (5000+) with oil below 150F. If I drive sedately during warmup I stay well below bypass and if I wait until the oil is past 170F, I can rev all I want (not that I want to often...only for tests!). So my testing seems to confirm what I was told that bypass events are "infrequent."

b) Bypass is not an open or shut event. Even during a bypass event, some, if not most, of the oil is still going thru the filter media. When oil is flowing, most of the contaminants, certainly the lighter ones, are stuck to the media with the oil flow. This means they are not likely to be pushed thru the bypass. Those that are are very small in number. Say the bypass spec is 16 psi. A single number spec means that the bypass is fully open at that pressure. Purolator is a bit more accurate and gives a range, 9-16 psi for my filter, which means that filter may crack at 9 psi and be fully open at 16 psi differential pressure. Again I refer to my tests: I am not seeing much more than DP when I am in that ballpark and even completely ignoring propriety by flooring the engine and revving to 4500 with 45F oil, I have no more than 2-4 psi above the cracking pressure meaning the valve is not open very much.

c) Most modern engines are running pretty clean. Another factoid I gleaned is that most filters are nowhere near full at the time of a change.. even those run to 7.5-10K. That testifies to engines running pretty clean. The point here is that the contamination level in the oil is low, so whatever does get past the filter in a moment (a second long perhaps) will not be much.

d) Not all filters in a family are base or dome bypass. In fact, I think MC is the only line that has the base end valve feature on the majority of it's part numbers.... certainly those destined for OE Ford approvals. If you look at pics of M1 or RP filters, you see only a small percentage of part numbers that have the base end feature.

e) Two engineers told me that the base end bypass valve design commonly being used (looks like the same design on everything MC) is "problematic." The farthest they would go down that road is that they saw a higher number of failures with them than with the more common and conventional design used on the dome end. Not sure what that all means.

Bottom line, is a base end bypass is "better?" Perhaps so when looked at as a single design element but that's not all there is. In the context of all the other stuff going on with lube filtration, there may be many more important features so I wouldn't recommend the location of the valve to be a deal maker or a deal breaker in choosing a filter.

Finally, all this is conditional. If you run 15W40 in an engine designed for 5W20 and do so in a winter climate, then start you engine and race off to work... your engine will see many more bypass events than most everyone else. Ditto for guys who race and go from near idle to 8,000 rpm in a flash or guys who run a filter too long, have a high contamination rate (often and commonly due to inefficient air filtration). If you use the right grade of oil for the climate and according to mfr viscosity spec, go easy on the engine as the oil warms up, aren't a hotrodder, you should see few, if any, bypass events.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen


e) Two engineers told me that the base end bypass valve design commonly being used (looks like the same design on everything MC) is "problematic." The farthest they would go down that road is that they saw a higher number of failures with them than with the more common and conventional design used on the dome end. Not sure what that all means.



Great post as always Jim, I've noticed that Wix seems to have a hard time getting thread end bypasses to work properly, the Motorcrafts seem to work well though.
 
KC, I'm not talking about the combo valve, which Wix uses. That's a seperate issue. I'm talking about the design MC uses. Like I said, I couldn't get many specific on this, so take it as you will, but according to my sources, the MC design has been problematic in the past.
 
Hi Jim

Aren't Ford concerned about the particles that have already settled at the dome end (when the dome end is the lowest point) being carried through the dome bypass, rather than particles already stuck to the media?

Regards
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
KC, I'm not talking about the combo valve, which Wix uses. That's a seperate issue. I'm talking about the design MC uses. Like I said, I couldn't get many specific on this, so take it as you will, but according to my sources, the MC design has been problematic in the past.


I wasn't referring to Wix's problematic combo valve either, I was speaking of their thread end bypass like the MC. I didn't know the MC had been having issues with those, all the MC I've used have seemed to work well.

Can you tell what the MC issues have been? Very curious.

The Wix/Napa Gold thread end bypass I tried ADBV wouldn't seal at all on the blow back test. I took it back and none of the others on the shelf would either. Every single other filter I tried sealed easily, even the dreaded orange can.

Not a fan of combo valves, it's only better if it actually works!
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As usual, Jim Allen is the tiny voice of reason trying to be heard over the rhetoric and bluster.

To distill his comments to the essence, any filtration better than the minimum needed by the engine to function correctly is wasted. Maybe a better way of putting it is that using a filter of "higher quality" than that which is needed doesn't buy you anything. My engine won't last any longer using a $15 RP filter over the $4 MC filter I use now.

Have I paraphrased you correctly, Jim?
 
Originally Posted By: LScowboy
my issue with the Fram Ultra and most other filters is bypass located on top, right now I think the Motorcraft S series might be the way to go as bypass design may be far more important than some super-duper media which is likely more restrictive at startup.


Depends on the orientation of the filter. For instance, I would not want a filter with a base end bypass on my Tacoma because the filter is mounted vertical with base down.

Ford developed the base end bypass because when they developed it, most of their engines had the filter mounted at 45 deg with base up.

On a filter mounted horizontally, the location of the bypass valve doesn't really matter.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
I started wondering how often that happened and when I interviewed a number of oil filter folks for THIS and other outlets, I discovered that bypass is "infrequent" (a quote from one engineer) for most people.


Nice write-up Jim.
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Originally Posted By: Falken
Wix filters have the best balance of flow, price, and technology. They are the original spin on oil filter. Made in Gastonia, U.S.A.

The biggest problem with Royal Purple is Pennzoil Platinum and QSUD.

Two amazing dirt cheap trusted oils vs. purple oil that costs a lot, shears a ton, and has spotty UOAs?

If you want to go the RP route, look the Amsoil route first IMO.

I have never seen a bad Amsoil extended UOA in a healthy engine on this site. It has a lot of trust on this site and I trust it as well.

If I could get Amsoil 0W20 at Canadian Tire that is what I'd use when I extend my OCI when my warranty is up.


Speaking of Wix having the best flow,one thing I notice using Wix over any other brand is constant oil pressure. Oil pressure never drops and never runs low like it does with other filters I've used.
 
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