Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Newton iterated many things I would have said in response to Large and Max. I would add the following: Good common since information Jim
1) It's true that resins bind the cellulose into "media" and that chemical reactions or prolonged heat can break it down. There are a variety of resin types available to the media manufacturers, some better than others. From what I know, the quality is fairly consistent across most price ranges of filters but you might consider that the quality of the media (and the resins) could very well be indicated by the price point of the filter. I would suggest that idea be factored into to anyone's filter choice thinking with regards to extended OCIs. Actual data on this will be hard to find. As I said above, I tried to wrest some details from some of my sources but they were unwilling to trust a nube with that much knowledge (assuming I could understand all of it). More to the point, they did not want their name or company connected to anything I might write. Even if I did it right, to many details in the hands of readers with too little brainpower is potentially a bad thing. Good information
2) One of the rules of thumb I garnered from my Q&As with filter boffins was that few filters are ever loaded to anywhere near their capacity in a FCI. When asked for averages, and averaging those averages, the responses were that most filters are loaded to no more than 50% of capacity when changed at the "normal" interval. I think the danger of a full or nearly full filter is very situationally dependent and a clued in operator knows, or can learn, what those situations are and if they apply to them. When contamination inputs are low, which would be the case with most modern gas engines operated in largely clean environments, filter loading is minimal. The inputs from normal wear alone are very low, as evidenced by an average UOA, but when you combine outside factors like a leaky intake system and a dusty environment, you get inputs galore and these inputs increase the wear contaminants and you get what is commonly called, "the chain reaction of wear" and a filter could load quickly. Oxidation byproducts (sludge) can also load a filter, as well as agglomerated soot in a diesel. Again, these are all factors... and there are others... that anyone contemplating long OCI or FCIs should take into account. More notable good information.
3) Anyone contemplating a long OCI or FCI is, or should be, duty bound to up his level of knowledge and thinking. You don't want to wander around blindfolded by your lack of understanding. Anyone who is unwilling to do the required research should just stick to the no-brainer factory intervals. That said, based on what I have learned much oil and many filters are being dumped and tossed in a very underutilized state and given the price increases of these products, a little attention to detail can deliver a worthwhile payoff. Makes Since!
4) UOAs are a useful tool. They aren't infallible and I regard them more as a check on oil health than a tool for checking engine health. It can be the latter, but only when it's trended religiously... and that's not cost effective for most of us not in the commercial realm. Spot checking for oil health and extending the OCI is very useful.
5) Indeed my differential pressure testing is showing that seldom is the P1 filter on my engine going into bypass, and when it does, it's with cold oil that is at least a grade higher than recommended for the engine and when the engine is run hard before oil temps are above 100F. This filter has 13K+ on it thus far but I think this is probably fairly typical in an engine with few contamination inputs. I will be running it to 15K and a bit over 2 years. With oil at 185F, with 10W30 oil, DP is 2-4 psi at 1700-3000 rpm and about 6 psi at 5500 rpm. If I rev to 5500 with the oil under 160F, I pump right up at the filter's spec'ed 8psi bypass beginning opening point (fully open At 16 psi).
6) There is nothing binding a lofted synthetic media... it has wire backing to hold it in place. That's why is is more or less immune to the effect of a long FCI and why I would suggest that type of filter to anyone contemplating a long FCI. Absolutely!
7) Contamination control is best accomplished by starting with controlling inputs... and first on that list is the air filtration system. An engine cycles a lot of air thru itself and if that air is not filtered well, it becomes the major contributor to oil contamination and increased wear. The air filtration system is truly the first house to get in order if a long OCU/FCI is contemplated.
All in All, if you want to cover your rear and protect your rear...you better follow a warranty or implied warranty,cause you have nothing to fall back on in the event of a failure! LCM red comments
Newton iterated many things I would have said in response to Large and Max. I would add the following: Good common since information Jim
1) It's true that resins bind the cellulose into "media" and that chemical reactions or prolonged heat can break it down. There are a variety of resin types available to the media manufacturers, some better than others. From what I know, the quality is fairly consistent across most price ranges of filters but you might consider that the quality of the media (and the resins) could very well be indicated by the price point of the filter. I would suggest that idea be factored into to anyone's filter choice thinking with regards to extended OCIs. Actual data on this will be hard to find. As I said above, I tried to wrest some details from some of my sources but they were unwilling to trust a nube with that much knowledge (assuming I could understand all of it). More to the point, they did not want their name or company connected to anything I might write. Even if I did it right, to many details in the hands of readers with too little brainpower is potentially a bad thing. Good information
2) One of the rules of thumb I garnered from my Q&As with filter boffins was that few filters are ever loaded to anywhere near their capacity in a FCI. When asked for averages, and averaging those averages, the responses were that most filters are loaded to no more than 50% of capacity when changed at the "normal" interval. I think the danger of a full or nearly full filter is very situationally dependent and a clued in operator knows, or can learn, what those situations are and if they apply to them. When contamination inputs are low, which would be the case with most modern gas engines operated in largely clean environments, filter loading is minimal. The inputs from normal wear alone are very low, as evidenced by an average UOA, but when you combine outside factors like a leaky intake system and a dusty environment, you get inputs galore and these inputs increase the wear contaminants and you get what is commonly called, "the chain reaction of wear" and a filter could load quickly. Oxidation byproducts (sludge) can also load a filter, as well as agglomerated soot in a diesel. Again, these are all factors... and there are others... that anyone contemplating long OCI or FCIs should take into account. More notable good information.
3) Anyone contemplating a long OCI or FCI is, or should be, duty bound to up his level of knowledge and thinking. You don't want to wander around blindfolded by your lack of understanding. Anyone who is unwilling to do the required research should just stick to the no-brainer factory intervals. That said, based on what I have learned much oil and many filters are being dumped and tossed in a very underutilized state and given the price increases of these products, a little attention to detail can deliver a worthwhile payoff. Makes Since!
4) UOAs are a useful tool. They aren't infallible and I regard them more as a check on oil health than a tool for checking engine health. It can be the latter, but only when it's trended religiously... and that's not cost effective for most of us not in the commercial realm. Spot checking for oil health and extending the OCI is very useful.
5) Indeed my differential pressure testing is showing that seldom is the P1 filter on my engine going into bypass, and when it does, it's with cold oil that is at least a grade higher than recommended for the engine and when the engine is run hard before oil temps are above 100F. This filter has 13K+ on it thus far but I think this is probably fairly typical in an engine with few contamination inputs. I will be running it to 15K and a bit over 2 years. With oil at 185F, with 10W30 oil, DP is 2-4 psi at 1700-3000 rpm and about 6 psi at 5500 rpm. If I rev to 5500 with the oil under 160F, I pump right up at the filter's spec'ed 8psi bypass beginning opening point (fully open At 16 psi).
6) There is nothing binding a lofted synthetic media... it has wire backing to hold it in place. That's why is is more or less immune to the effect of a long FCI and why I would suggest that type of filter to anyone contemplating a long FCI. Absolutely!
7) Contamination control is best accomplished by starting with controlling inputs... and first on that list is the air filtration system. An engine cycles a lot of air thru itself and if that air is not filtered well, it becomes the major contributor to oil contamination and increased wear. The air filtration system is truly the first house to get in order if a long OCU/FCI is contemplated.
All in All, if you want to cover your rear and protect your rear...you better follow a warranty or implied warranty,cause you have nothing to fall back on in the event of a failure! LCM red comments
