Oil for a dry clutch Ducati. A3/B3 or JASO?

[Trondos]

Hello! As I live in Europe, (Norway) I don`t have acess to the same oils at you guys in the US. I did my first oil change last week, and put in synthetic motorcycle oil from old habit. My last bike had wet clutch.
But then I began to think....this bike has a dry clutch.
The oil I put in is API SM, JASO MA2. Tech sheet

What concerns me is shear stability. Does anyone know how a regular car oil fulfilling ACEA A3/B3/B4 will do compared to a typical motorcycle oil?
I can get synthetic oils according to that spec rather cheap. A nice bonus is that I can get a 5W-50 oil, as Ducati lists 20W-50 as the preferred choice, but allows other grades according to temperature.
Tech sheet of a car oil.

Or am I better off with a HDEO? ACEA E4 or something like that? I can`t get hold of Rotella here, but I can get Mobil Delvac for a reasonable price. Is that a better option?

Thanks for your replies!

 

[Quattro Pete]

What exactly does Ducati recommend for this bike? What grades and what specs?

But yeah, all in all, you don't need to be concerned with JASO MA since it's dry clutch.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
What exactly does Ducati recommend for this bike? What grades and what specs?...


Depending on year it recommends either Shell Advance (newer) or AGIP Super 4T (older).

 

[JimPghPA]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
What exactly does Ducati recommend for this bike? What grades and what specs?

But yeah, all in all, you don't need to be concerned with JASO MA since it's dry clutch.


Actually if the gear box has the oil of the engine circulate through it, then JASO MA would be a safer bet than an oil without those ratings. The gears with all the power of the engine going through them will shear the molecules of many oils causing them to then have a much lower viscosity.

Regarding 5W-50 and similar oils with a wide range between the lower and upper number. Most oils with a wide spread like that are more prone to shearing. The wider the spread between the two numbers the more likely the oil is to shear.

 

[Trondos]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
What exactly does Ducati recommend for this bike? What grades and what specs?

But yeah, all in all, you don't need to be concerned with JASO MA since it's dry clutch.


Ducati recommends: "Use only oil with high detergent power, certified as equivalent or superior to SE, SF or SG duty.

Viscosity: SAE 20W-50
Other viscosities indicated in the table can be used if the average temperature is within the limits of the indicated range.

It lists 20W-40, 20W-50, 15W-40, 15W-50, 10W-40, 10W-30.

The "problem" with synthetic car oils here in Norway is that they are all 5W-something. That makes sense for our cars in winter.
The 15W oils available here are mineral, or semi-synthetic, but still have a rather extensive spec. Could this be a good option? I can for instance get a mineral 15W-40 oil that complies to:
API CH-4/SL, ACEA A/3/B3/B4/E3/E5/E7, MB 228.3, Volvo VDS-2, MAN M3275, Allison C-4.

Oh, and yes the engine share oil with the gearbox, and the engine is watercooled. It is a 1999 ST4 with a 916 engine.

 

[DuckRyder]

FWIW

Both the AGIP (now Eni?) and Shell that Ducati recommend are MA rated.

I'd stick with the MA personally.

 

[Sprocket]

Why not Edge 10W60? Is a good alternative for the 20W50.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Sprocket
Why not Edge 10W60?

He said he wanted an oil with good shear stability. I have yet to find a 10w-60 oil that is shear stable.

 

[Sprocket]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Sprocket
Why not Edge 10W60?

He said he wanted an oil with good shear stability. I have yet to find a 10w-60 oil that is shear stable.

Extract from http://www.zfdoc.com/faq.htm

" The C4 Corvette ZF S6-40 6-speed transmission uses engine oil for lubrication. I was told by Jeff Henning, Warranty Administrator of ZF Industries North America, that Engineering of ZF Industries in Germany determined that the BMW imported Castrol (RS superseded by TWS) 10W-60 oil was the recommended alternative to the (GM P/N 1052931) factory-fill oil for use in the ZF S6-40 transmission. In effort to verify ZF Industries alternative lubricant recommendation, we ran our own test series on the BMW imported Castrol TWS 10W-60 oil. Independent testing of the transmission oil samples was sub-contracted out to CTC Analytical Services. The test series went as follows:
Spectrographic analysis indicated that it is has full synthetic composition.
After 2 hours of operation, approximately 100 miles, oil sample analysis tests indicated that the viscosity rating was reduced from 60 down to a 43 level. No need to worry, this is a normal occurrence for this heavier type of oil. I attribute this to microscopic-level lubricant-strand trimming through operational loading where all of the oil contents has been passed through gear pressure-loading regions at least a few times.
At 200 miles, the viscosity level stabilized at a 42 level viscosity since the 100 mile oil analysis test results.
At 5000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 40 level viscosity.
The test-transmission was completely disassembled and checked for wear. There were no signs of carbon film like experienced with the factory-fill oil. The phosphor-bronze lined synchronizers had no glazing and experienced an average mass loss of approximately 4% based on reserve-wear-range mass equivalency between 0.062"(new) and 0.048"(spent)
gap wear/mass measurements.
At 10,000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 39 level viscosity.
At 12,500 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 37 level viscosity.
At 15,000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 34 level viscosity.
The test-transmission was again completely disassembled and checked for wear. There were no signs of carbon film like experienced with the factory-fill 30 oil. The phosphor-bronze lined synchronizers had no glazing and experienced an average mass loss of approximately 17% based on reserve-wear-range mass equivalency between 0.062"(new) and 0.048"(spent) gap wear/mass measurements.
At 15,000 miles the oil had enough phosphor-bronze particles suspended
in it that deposits began building up inside of the synchronizer sliding
sleeves from the normal centrifuge-like rotational occurrence.
In Conclusion, until someone invents a copper magnet, we recommend that the ZF S6-40 6-speed transmission oil be changed at 10,000 - 12,000 mile intervals so as to minimize the amount of deposits of the suspended spent synchronizer material from collecting in critical component contact surface areas."

 

[Ducman]

Originally Posted By: Trondos
Hello! As I live in Europe, (Norway) I don`t have acess to the same oils at you guys in the US. I did my first oil change last week, and put in synthetic motorcycle oil from old habit. My last bike had wet clutch.
But then I began to think....this bike has a dry clutch.
The oil I put in is API SM, JASO MA2. Tech sheet

What concerns me is shear stability. Does anyone know how a regular car oil fulfilling ACEA A3/B3/B4 will do compared to a typical motorcycle oil?
I can get synthetic oils according to that spec rather cheap. A nice bonus is that I can get a 5W-50 oil, as Ducati lists 20W-50 as the preferred choice, but allows other grades according to temperature.
Tech sheet of a car oil.

Or am I better off with a HDEO? ACEA E4 or something like that? I can`t get hold of Rotella here, but I can get Mobil Delvac for a reasonable price. Is that a better option?

Thanks for your replies!

Can't you get the Shell Advance Ultra 4 in Norway?
It's the brand of oil DUCATI recommend in the owners manuals now days.
It comes in 10w-40 like they used to recommend in the manuals and it would be good for your climate, and it's also available as a 15w-50 like they recommend now.

Cheers

 

[Trondos]

Originally Posted By: Ducman

Can't you get the Shell Advance Ultra 4 in Norway?
It's the brand of oil DUCATI recommend in the owners manuals now days.
It comes in 10w-40 like they used to recommend in the manuals and it would be good for your climate, and it's also available as a 15w-50 like they recommend now.

Cheers


I can indeed get Shell Advance here, but at a very high cost. Being a cheapskate, I am just looking for alternatives.
Cheers

 

[Ducman]

Originally Posted By: Trondos
Originally Posted By: Ducman

Can't you get the Shell Advance Ultra 4 in Norway?
It's the brand of oil DUCATI recommend in the owners manuals now days.
It comes in 10w-40 like they used to recommend in the manuals and it would be good for your climate, and it's also available as a 15w-50 like they recommend now.

Cheers


I can indeed get Shell Advance here, but at a very high cost. Being a cheapskate, I am just looking for alternatives.
Cheers

I get it now.
In that case i recommend sourcing some good old fashioned 15w-40 diesel oil, that meets the older specs.
Seeing as you don't have to worry about a wet clutch, that will do nicely, and should be at the right price.
Oil technology & quality has moved on significantly in recent years, and so has the price. Unfortunately.

Cheers