15% Ethanol Coming??

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I didn't know about the mandate that requires refiners to use 13.8 billion gallons ethanol this year requiring the 15 percent blend. I thought this mandate got shot down?
 
The EPA issued the waiver for E10 thus clearing the way for E15 coming to the market place, it's already hit a few small gas stations but none of the "BIG" companies have released or even registered yet that I know of.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/additive/e15/e15-faq.htm

The AFPM wants to appeal to the Supreme Court ever since the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals' decision in August 2012 that dismissed challenges to the EPA approval of E15 for MY2001 and newer autos. This means that E15 WAS APPROVED, a lot of people were confused about this ruling thinking E15 was canceled out....

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/...-202734551.html

Interesting article: http://green.autoblog.com/2013/03/21/first-e15-gas-station-warning-conocophillips-ethanol/

The good thing about this is at least Big Oil is going to fight this along with all of the Automobile trade groups and AAA, etc, etc.

I'm for alternatives but even if my car was certified I'm not looking forward to reduced gas mileage, it's funny how the price of gasoline never goes down...
 
Car makers claim E15 will cause damage to fuel systems etc. Today I saw a pro ethanol talking head state that E15 has been out for a few months now in some stations and no damaged reported yet. The guy has rocks in his head IMO. Give me 100% gasoline. Burning food is just wrong.
 
E15 won't work in any Hyundai, I can say that for a fact. 11% ethanol will trip a check engine light. The knock sensors won't keep up. In fact, if you bring a Hyundai in for a check engine light, even if it is only a day old, and the gasoline registers more than 10% ethanol, the owner is on the hook for diag, purging the "bad gas", new gas, and any damage done.
 
I guess the only good news in that gas stations have to clearly label E15 and indicate MY2001 and newer however E10 or < has to also be made available for Motorcycles, Lawn Mowers, buses, delivery trucks, etc.

Just one has to wonder will they increase the costs since juggling another type of gas will be expensive...
 
Originally Posted By: salv
E15 won't work in any Hyundai, I can say that for a fact. 11% ethanol will trip a check engine light. The knock sensors won't keep up. In fact, if you bring a Hyundai in for a check engine light, even if it is only a day old, and the gasoline registers more than 10% ethanol, the owner is on the hook for diag, purging the "bad gas", new gas, and any damage done.


Yep and I wonder what other cars will do the same....
 
Originally Posted By: zloveraz
I guess the only good news in that gas stations have to clearly label E15 and indicate MY2001 and newer however E10 or < has to also be made available for Motorcycles, Lawn Mowers, buses, delivery trucks, etc.

Just one has to wonder will they increase the costs since juggling another type of gas will be expensive...


I would assume the gas stations could just eliminate the 89 and have 87 and 92 at E10 and 87 at E15. Does anyone buy 89?

Boats need 89 however (Mercruiser).

Could they mix the alcohol onsite at the station via drawing from 2 tanks (one gas and one alcohol).
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
I would assume the gas stations could just eliminate the 89 and have 87 and 92 at E10 and 87 at E15. Does anyone buy 89?

Boats need 89 however (Mercruiser).

Could they mix the alcohol onsite at the station via drawing from 2 tanks (one gas and one alcohol).

Gas stations don't have a separate tank for 89. When someone buys 89, the pump just mixes 87 and 93 together to make 89. So putting E15 in the 89 tank won't work, since there isn't an 89 tank to begin with.
 
I don't think we will see an E15 "mandate". What we will see is tax incentives and subsidies to refineries, blenders, and stations for using 15%ethanol in their fuels.
I think what we would see is non-ethanol stations forgoing the incentives and charging a premium, knowing full well that consumers will flock to non-ethanol gas, even for an extra $1 per gallon or so.
This will put enough pressure on other stations to offer non-ethanol gas along side E15, price wars will ensue, and ethanol in any concentration may be marginalized as a practical fuel. Pushing the limits of ethanol dilution could, via the free market, kill "gasohol". Here's hoping!
 
I would assume the gas stations could just eliminate the 89 and have 87 and 92 at E10 and 87 at E15. Does anyone buy 89?

There are a few cars that run 89 octane, for example my 3.5L Chrysler 300 does. Many Hemi's run 89 octane.
 
Originally Posted By: salv
I don't think we will see an E15 "mandate". What we will see is tax incentives and subsidies to refineries, blenders, and stations for using 15%ethanol in their fuels.
I think what we would see is non-ethanol stations forgoing the incentives and charging a premium, knowing full well that consumers will flock to non-ethanol gas, even for an extra $1 per gallon or so.
This will put enough pressure on other stations to offer non-ethanol gas along side E15, price wars will ensue, and ethanol in any concentration may be marginalized as a practical fuel. Pushing the limits of ethanol dilution could, via the free market, kill "gasohol". Here's hoping!


Correct currently the waiver allows but does not require E15 however I suspect later on tax incentives, etc to be pushed hard to force E15 adoption rates.
 
Originally Posted By: Topo


I would assume the gas stations could just eliminate the 89 and have 87 and 92 at E10 and 87 at E15. Does anyone buy 89?

There are a few cars that run 89 octane, for example my 3.5L Chrysler 300 does. Many Hemi's run 89 octane.


Read my post above ^^

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Gas stations don't have a separate tank for 89. When someone buys 89, the pump just mixes 87 and 93 together to make 89. So putting E15 in the 89 tank won't work, since there isn't an 89 tank to begin with.
 
Originally Posted By: Topo
I would assume the gas stations could just eliminate the 89 and have 87 and 92 at E10 and 87 at E15. Does anyone buy 89?

There are a few cars that run 89 octane, for example my 3.5L Chrysler 300 does. Many Hemi's run 89 octane.

My saab runs 90. 89 is an overpriced waste, it's cost structure doesn't slightly with 87/93. So I mix my own and save a few pennies.
 
its pretty accurate, would you run it in your car??? even the manufacturers warn against it
making ethanol from corn is a very inefficient process, hope you like your $10 lb steak soon to be higher
 
. [/quote]
Gas stations don't have a separate tank for 89. When someone buys 89, the pump just mixes 87 and 93 together to make 89. So putting E15 in the 89 tank won't work, since there isn't an 89 tank to begin with. [/quote]

Not that it matters for this topic, but this just isn't true. I've worked at a gas station and everyone i have seen has 3 tanks in the ground. True that they can come in with 93 and 87 on a tanker and mix them in the 89 tank. I've seen it.
 
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