Auto-Rx vs. LC for maintenance
- Thread starter KC Strip
- Start date
- Status
LC is less expensive, easier to use in zero degrees.
Auto-Rx is very easy to use in zero degrees if you have stored it in a cold climate just run it under hot water for 10 minutes and pourability will be returned. Once in oil Auto-Rx takes on same viscosity as your host oil.
The 3 ounce maintenance plan keeps your engine performing at the same level as it did right after cleaning. You never have to reclean engine using this plan.
The 3 ounce maintenance plan keeps your engine performing at the same level as it did right after cleaning. You never have to reclean engine using this plan.
Frank,
Will Auto Rx and LC work together in harmony if I were to use them both for maintenance doses?
Will Auto Rx and LC work together in harmony if I were to use them both for maintenance doses?
Since I was hired by both companies to test their products I post this with some degree of insight. I am not allowed by proprietary agreement to disclose all I know about each product but here goes what I can.
Frank of Auto-RX may have a valid point but I have not verified the idea that continous use of Auto-Rx in a lower maintenance dose could clean continually. I can say that from our testing to date the product literally is a "liquid filter" that not only cleans but can disperse large and small contaminants in a way that cuts wear and increases ring seal. Ensuring the product is at room temp BEFORE pouring into the host oil ELIMINATES cold weather issues, once installed in the host oil cold start,pump is not impacted.
LC is more of a anti-oxidant booster with a unique Cf reduction capability using a chemistry that is unlike Auto-RX, both chemistries are unique, NO ONE ( other companies), have access to.
In nearly 60 years of continous use, LC is a rock solid chemistry but WILL not CLEAN deeply like Auto-RX.
The ester chemistry of RX is totally antithetical to LC.
Many of my oil analysis customers use BOTH products at the same time, verifying that application with oil analysis. This does not work in every application and for cleaning phase there is no need for LC top ups.
LC is as safe as motor oil, and Auto-RX is as safe as a consumable food stuff so they can be compatible but do not attempt that without verifying oil analysis. Both companies will not be happy for me to post that here but there are those doing it , successfully. Warning!! Don't do it without testing and don't blame either company if you screw up something experimenting on your own!
Marketing takes second seat to my desire to share science here. So, I say with a great degree of confidence: use both products as directed and enjoy your engine running better while saving money on needless additives or overpriced fully formulated lubes that will still need a periodic Auto-RX cleaning and anti oxidation help from LC.
Both products are effective chemical correction tools for us as a oil analysis company. Used properly save time and money.
Terry
Frank of Auto-RX may have a valid point but I have not verified the idea that continous use of Auto-Rx in a lower maintenance dose could clean continually. I can say that from our testing to date the product literally is a "liquid filter" that not only cleans but can disperse large and small contaminants in a way that cuts wear and increases ring seal. Ensuring the product is at room temp BEFORE pouring into the host oil ELIMINATES cold weather issues, once installed in the host oil cold start,pump is not impacted.
LC is more of a anti-oxidant booster with a unique Cf reduction capability using a chemistry that is unlike Auto-RX, both chemistries are unique, NO ONE ( other companies), have access to.
In nearly 60 years of continous use, LC is a rock solid chemistry but WILL not CLEAN deeply like Auto-RX.
The ester chemistry of RX is totally antithetical to LC.
Many of my oil analysis customers use BOTH products at the same time, verifying that application with oil analysis. This does not work in every application and for cleaning phase there is no need for LC top ups.
LC is as safe as motor oil, and Auto-RX is as safe as a consumable food stuff so they can be compatible but do not attempt that without verifying oil analysis. Both companies will not be happy for me to post that here but there are those doing it , successfully. Warning!! Don't do it without testing and don't blame either company if you screw up something experimenting on your own!
Marketing takes second seat to my desire to share science here. So, I say with a great degree of confidence: use both products as directed and enjoy your engine running better while saving money on needless additives or overpriced fully formulated lubes that will still need a periodic Auto-RX cleaning and anti oxidation help from LC.
Both products are effective chemical correction tools for us as a oil analysis company. Used properly save time and money.
Terry
If they are both so superior, why isn't ONE just good enough?
I've had several engines with high mileage that all had perfect compression, no sludge or crud, no loss in MPG, no loss in power, no engine failures or breakdowns, no excessive oil consumption, no leaks,...... by simply using synthetic oils with a reasonable OCI, along with required other maintenance to keep the cars in good state of tune.
I've had several engines with high mileage that all had perfect compression, no sludge or crud, no loss in MPG, no loss in power, no engine failures or breakdowns, no excessive oil consumption, no leaks,...... by simply using synthetic oils with a reasonable OCI, along with required other maintenance to keep the cars in good state of tune.
There have been observations in this forum regarding problems with leaving AutoRx in too long, such as foaming in a power steering system. There seems to be a bit of schizophrenia on AutoRx cleaning:
1. In the engine you need to use AutoRx for awhile but it's the rinse phase where real cleaning takes place, typically showing up by deposits precipitating in the oil filter.
2. In an auto transmission the rinse phase seems to be dispensed with ? Maybe it's due to the lower dosage ?
3. For maintennace one also doesn't also rely upon a rinse, but in a dirty engine will filter plugging be a problem ?
The easy way to clean seems to be just using a (heavier ?) maintenance dose, maybe with shorter fluid change intervals, but I guess the cleaning isn't as thorough.
1. In the engine you need to use AutoRx for awhile but it's the rinse phase where real cleaning takes place, typically showing up by deposits precipitating in the oil filter.
2. In an auto transmission the rinse phase seems to be dispensed with ? Maybe it's due to the lower dosage ?
3. For maintennace one also doesn't also rely upon a rinse, but in a dirty engine will filter plugging be a problem ?
The easy way to clean seems to be just using a (heavier ?) maintenance dose, maybe with shorter fluid change intervals, but I guess the cleaning isn't as thorough.
unDummy, you are a lucky fellow then.
Most automotive engine lube applications, ( based on THOUSANDS of oil analysis results interpreted) need additional chemical assistance to optimize cleaning and controlling oxidation.
TWO different chemistries that attack different aspects of engine cleanliness, and oxidation fighting.
Most automotive engine lube applications, ( based on THOUSANDS of oil analysis results interpreted) need additional chemical assistance to optimize cleaning and controlling oxidation.
TWO different chemistries that attack different aspects of engine cleanliness, and oxidation fighting.
I don't consider myself lucky. I just use a common sense maintenance program. Maybe all it takes is that one extra oil change a year? I don't care for oil life monitors. I don't care for owners manual's long OCI recommendations(or warnings). And, I don't use the cheapest oil that I can find.
Terry, Frank, and/or lcd,
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=004201;p=1
I asked a question on this older posting about using ARX and LC simultaneously. If you read down to the sixth and seventh postings, you'll see the answers that "peterr" and "ALS" gave:
"My understanding is that ARX and LubeControl are competing chemistries. I doubt that they would do harm if mixed, but the AutoRX would probably try to remove the LC20 as a contaminant and the LC20 might interfere with the ARX" and "It seems that the two don't mix well. You get a nasty black coating over everything. I would make sure that you did an OCI between the change to make sure the previous product is completely out before you introduce the other product to the oil" respectively.
Is there any truth to either of these replies and if not, what would happen, if anything, if the two products are used simultaneously. Thanks for your time and great products.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=004201;p=1
I asked a question on this older posting about using ARX and LC simultaneously. If you read down to the sixth and seventh postings, you'll see the answers that "peterr" and "ALS" gave:
"My understanding is that ARX and LubeControl are competing chemistries. I doubt that they would do harm if mixed, but the AutoRX would probably try to remove the LC20 as a contaminant and the LC20 might interfere with the ARX" and "It seems that the two don't mix well. You get a nasty black coating over everything. I would make sure that you did an OCI between the change to make sure the previous product is completely out before you introduce the other product to the oil" respectively.
Is there any truth to either of these replies and if not, what would happen, if anything, if the two products are used simultaneously. Thanks for your time and great products.
anyone? anyone?
Thanks Vetteman I must have missed it completely
I went back under the search function where I asked the same question. Unfortunately it would only go back 50 posts. But when I asked why not use both I was told the two don't mix well. Plus there was a Bitog poster that did mix both and got a black gooey coating on his valve train. I'm pretty sure he also posted pictures of the mess. If there was a way to go back say 100 or 200 posts I would be able to find the post using the search function.
My full post was
"My vote is for full Auto-RX cycle every "Insert number of miles makes you happy" and then LC20 in maintenance mode after the ARX is complete.
Many have said use AutoRX to clean your engine and use LC20 to keep it clean.
My understanding is that ARX and LubeControl are competing chemistries. I doubt that they would do harm if mixed, but the AutoRX would probably try to remove the LC20 as a contaminant and the LC20 might interfere with the ARX."
Frank has said on many occasions that Auto-RX will just remove other additives. I am of the opinion (just an opinion) that there would be no harm in simultaneous use, but possibly just a waste of one product.
So I run Auto-RX to clean and LC20 in Maintenance.
glennc
I just got back my oil test yesterday using Amsoil & LC20 (along with FP60) in my Lexus. Based on the decrease in wear #’s, lower NOX and OXD, higher TBN, maintained Amsoil ever-thickening viscosity problem in ASL….Looks like LCD has won my business hands down.
Just some FYI, the LC20 is cleaning out carbon in my other engine too. Looks 40% better in only 2K miles. I did not even mention the over 1 MPG increase using LCD items! So far saved almost $40 in fuel....
For me it started due to this:
AutoRX price: $2 per oz.
Lc20: $0.2578 per oz
Fp60: $0.2578 per oz.
I just got back my oil test yesterday using Amsoil & LC20 (along with FP60) in my Lexus. Based on the decrease in wear #’s, lower NOX and OXD, higher TBN, maintained Amsoil ever-thickening viscosity problem in ASL….Looks like LCD has won my business hands down.
Just some FYI, the LC20 is cleaning out carbon in my other engine too. Looks 40% better in only 2K miles. I did not even mention the over 1 MPG increase using LCD items! So far saved almost $40 in fuel....
For me it started due to this:
AutoRX price: $2 per oz.
Lc20: $0.2578 per oz
Fp60: $0.2578 per oz.
Auto-Rx is not like LC in chemistry-results-form-function.
Your comparing a solvent additive versus a ecological cleaner, and trying to show the additive cleans almost as well as the metal cleaner.
That simply is not true. Your cost analysis is skewed as 3 ounce Auto-Rx Maintenace Program will let you safely extend oil change mileage, therby saving money.
Your comparing a solvent additive versus a ecological cleaner, and trying to show the additive cleans almost as well as the metal cleaner.
That simply is not true. Your cost analysis is skewed as 3 ounce Auto-Rx Maintenace Program will let you safely extend oil change mileage, therby saving money.
I know LC is solvent based. You have stated this time and time again. I am also showing nothing that has not been stated before; it [LC20] can and does clean. I do not think it’s primary function is this, but it does clean. Even Terry has stated this.
As I have stated before I know you sponsor the “ARX is natural and LC20 is solvent based" more times than I can count but for me, I do not care. Give me something that works period.
I also do not see on any label or Application Instructions you have that ARX will safety extend oil change intervals. It cleans, yup, safety extend drains, no. Is there some unwritten rule here?
I can play this game if you like. You add ARX 3 oz every oil change (5,000 in my car). So your ARX 24 oz bottle will last 40,000. (if you use it only for a Maintenance Plan); as outlined on your site.
Cost of ARX: $24
LC20 is 1oz per qt then (1) oz every 1,000 miles. So in the same 40,000 miles I woud use 45 oz of LC20.
LC20 used: $11.60 or 51.6% less then ARX.
Again this is application wise. As I stated before, initial price vs “what you get” AutoRX is 8X more then Lc20.
product vs $$$, LC20 wins here Frank.
As I have stated before I know you sponsor the “ARX is natural and LC20 is solvent based" more times than I can count but for me, I do not care. Give me something that works period.
I also do not see on any label or Application Instructions you have that ARX will safety extend oil change intervals. It cleans, yup, safety extend drains, no. Is there some unwritten rule here?
I can play this game if you like. You add ARX 3 oz every oil change (5,000 in my car). So your ARX 24 oz bottle will last 40,000. (if you use it only for a Maintenance Plan); as outlined on your site.
Cost of ARX: $24
LC20 is 1oz per qt then (1) oz every 1,000 miles. So in the same 40,000 miles I woud use 45 oz of LC20.
LC20 used: $11.60 or 51.6% less then ARX.
Again this is application wise. As I stated before, initial price vs “what you get” AutoRX is 8X more then Lc20.
product vs $$$, LC20 wins here Frank.
- Status