Amsoil comparison: SS 0w30 vs SS 5w30

[Kuato]

In the continuing struggle to understand the chemistry of oils, I'd like to solicit some opinions and educated analysis from those more knowledgeable than myself, so please bear with me. These are both Signature Series oils; from the Amsoil site, the specs say:

..............Signature Series...........................................0w30...........5w30
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D 445) .......10.4 ............10.5
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D 445) ..........58.3 ...........60.1
Viscosity Index (ASTM D 2270)...................................170.............166
CCS Viscosity, cP @ (ºC) (ASTM D 5293).....................5909(-35).....4426(-30)
NOACK Volatlty, %wt loss (g/100g) (ASTM D 5800)....7.6...............6.9
High-Temperature/High-Shear Viscosity
@ 150ºC, 1.0 X 106 s.-1, cP (ASTM D 5481)...............3.1...............3.2


To me, this report indicates the following. Please correct me if I am wrong:

Line 1: 5w30 is slightly thicker at 100C (perhaps statistically insignificant)
Line 2: 5w30 is also thicker at 40C
Line 3: 0w30 has a higher viscosity index by 4 points; (from this thread: BITOG viscosity index thread ) Does this indicate the 0w30 is somewhat better? Explanation would be great.
Line 4: CCS viscosity ( from reading here: BITOG CCS viscosity )is pumpability. 0w30's number is much higher, at 5909 BUT that is at -35. 5w30 is 4426 but at "only" -30. If temps were the same would this indicate that 5w30 pumps more readily?
Line 5, volatility: Shows lower for 5w30, indicating that the 5w30 would be more stable?
Line 6, High temperature shear viscosity, 5w30 shows higher, does this also indicate better stability?

I left out Flash and Fire Points since they are self explanatory, and Pour Points and TBN because they are identical.

Thanks in advance for the analysis.

 

[147_Grain]

Both Group IV / V oils perform similarly, with the 0W-30 (which I've used for 10 years) having a slight edge during cold-starts / cold weather and the 5W-30 doing slightly better at high temps.

Your car and wallet will never know the difference between these two outstanding products.

If I lived in Canada, I'd pay the extra 30 cents per quart for the 0W-30 and enjoy (perhaps) the best protection from a motor oil that money can buy. I (personally) know of no better oil on the market than the 0W-30 for all-around use.

 

[randomhero439]

Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
I (personally) know of no better oil on the market than the 0W-30 for all-around use.


Redline 0w-30
Higher viscosity index
Higher HTHS
Lower pour point
lower CCS viscosity
Higher NOACK however.
Superior anti-wear package.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Line 4: CCS viscosity ( from reading here: BITOG CCS viscosity )is pumpability. 0w30's number is much higher, at 5909 BUT that is at -35. 5w30 is 4426 but at "only" -30. If temps were the same would this indicate that 5w30 pumps more readily?


No. API specifications require that CCS viscosity of 0W-oils be run at -35C, and that 5W-oils be run at -30C. Additionally, the cold cranking rating of an oil has to be reported for the lowest spec that it can meet. If the 5w30 oil could meet the limit at -35C (6200cP), it would be reported as such. Those last 5 degrees make a lot of difference.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: randomhero439
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
I (personally) know of no better oil on the market than the 0W-30 for all-around use.


Redline 0w-30
Higher viscosity index
Higher HTHS
Lower pour point
lower CCS viscosity
Higher NOACK however.
Superior anti-wear package.



Those numbers only tell you so much. Also, RL's AW package is more suited for engines that need higher levels of ZDP. TBN retention isn't that good with RL.

 

[Trav]

PU doesn't look bad at all even when compared to these 2. Look similar?
I have suspected for a long time that post Katrina Amsoil may be using SOPUS base stocks.
I'm not stating that as a fact but this sure looks close.

I don't believe the 5 points in VI make a bit of difference. This is so close it could all be within statistical noise, the engine sure wouldn't notice the difference.
IMHO PU is the best bargain on the market today bar non if you can find it a wally's for $28

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Line 4: CCS viscosity ( from reading here: BITOG CCS viscosity )is pumpability. 0w30's number is much higher, at 5909 BUT that is at -35. 5w30 is 4426 but at "only" -30. If temps were the same would this indicate that 5w30 pumps more readily?


No. API specifications require that CCS viscosity of 0W-oils be run at -35C, and that 5W-oils be run at -30C. Additionally, the cold cranking rating of an oil has to be reported for the lowest spec that it can meet. If the 5w30 oil could meet the limit at -35C (6200cP), it would be reported as such. Those last 5 degrees make a lot of difference.

Exactly. Which means that when tested at -35C, the 5w-30 had to have the CCS viscosity of above 6200cP. So at -35C, the 0w-30 would definitely pump better.

 

[Kuato]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions of which oil to use. As BITOGers I expected plenty of that in this thread!

However...I am endeavoring to learn more about the statistics and what they mean, not compare "X" number of brands of oils, which is why I showed the stats for only two oils.

Trav, you said:

Originally Posted By: Trav
I don't believe the 5 points in VI make a bit of difference. This is so close it could all be within statistical noise, the engine sure wouldn't notice the difference.


To your mind, what does VI encompass and why do you make this assessment? Sure, statistically it is probably insignificant but what is your thought process here?

Further, your charts have no information about TBN; so although PU is a fine oil what is the TBN?



Randomhero439, you said:

Originally Posted By: Randomhero439
Redline 0w-30
Higher viscosity index
Higher HTHS
Lower pour point
lower CCS viscosity
Higher NOACK however.
Superior anti-wear package.


What I'm trying to learn is WHY your quoted statistics are important. NOACK is volatility, so more will be consumed in some manner. What standards are you using with the claim of 'superior anti-wear package'?


A_Harman, you said:

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
No. API specifications require that CCS viscosity of 0W-oils be run at -35C, and that 5W-oils be run at -30C. Additionally, the cold cranking rating of an oil has to be reported for the lowest spec that it can meet. If the 5w30 oil could meet the limit at -35C (6200cP), it would be reported as such. Those last 5 degrees make a lot of difference.


Thanks; so 0w and 5w must meet a certain standard, and if they exceed that standard (for example, a 5w that would meet the 6200 at -35) they could be reported as having a CCS viscosity at that temp. Understood. So since the 0w doesn't have a -30 CCS reported, there really can't be a comparison at that temperature, but the 0w will flow much more readily at -35. Am I on target here?


(Thanks Quattro Pete for your post, you got in just ahead of me)

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: randomhero439
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
I (personally) know of no better oil on the market than the 0W-30 for all-around use.


Redline 0w-30
Higher viscosity index
Higher HTHS
Lower pour point
lower CCS viscosity
Higher NOACK however.
Superior anti-wear package.


Maybe but some have said that Redline isn't a good long interval oil.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
So since the 0w doesn't have a -30 CCS reported, there really can't be a comparison at that temperature,

You could try extrapolating using one of the viscosity calculators, alas, at such low temps they're fairly unreliable so it would still be guesswork, me thinks.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

You could try extrapolating using one of the viscosity calculators, alas, at such low temps they're fairly unreliable so it would still be guesswork, me thinks.


Yeah, or interpolate using the other reported viscosities. But since it's a curve, and follows some complex function that's beyond most peoples' calculus ability, it would have to be an estimate any way you cut it.

 

[randomhero439]

Originally Posted By: Kuato

Originally Posted By: Randomhero439
Redline 0w-30
Higher viscosity index
Higher HTHS
Lower pour point
lower CCS viscosity
Higher NOACK however.
Superior anti-wear package.


What I'm trying to learn is WHY your quoted statistics are important. NOACK is volatility, so more will be consumed in some manner. What standards are you using with the claim of 'superior anti-wear package'?




Better cold weather performance than Amsoil. Volatility is slightly higher (9 vs 7.6), meaning Amsoil 0w-30 is more stable. Redline is a little thicker though. Superior anti-wear package meaning 700ppm Moly and like 1300ppm zddp. Drawback is that its not an extended drain oil like Amsoil.

 

[147_Grain]

Kuato:

In short and since your question was about Amsoil (and not other products), use Amsoil for all-around everyday use for extended drain intervals due to its high-quality basestock and strong additive package. Either 0W-30 or 5W-30 will serve you well, but 0W-30 has the edge for colder temps in Canada.

Redline makes good products that are best suited towards racing applications - this is the major reason why they use extra moly and their customers change the racing oil far more often. (Cost is over $1.00 per quart than Amsoil.)

Good luck!

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Kuato:

In short and since your question was about Amsoil (and not other products), use Amsoil for all-around everyday use for extended drain intervals due to its high-quality basestock and strong additive package. Either 0W-30 or 5W-30 will serve you well, but 0W-30 has the edge for colder temps in Canada.

Redline makes good products that are best suited towards racing applications - this is the major reason why they use extra moly and their customers change the racing oil far more often. (Cost is over $1.00 per quart than Amsoil.)

Good luck!


Thanks 147_Grain. I'm changing from my current 5000 mile OCI to 10000, so with the longer interval I'll need an extended drain oil so wouldn't want to go with Redline (even though it's a great oil). UOAs on the Amsoil SS shows it could go well beyond even 10k in our vehicles with no issues.

 

[147_Grain]

Changing the 0W-30 once per year (just before winter arrives) has worked very well for me. Fresh oil flows the best!!! and this is why I suggest installing 0W-30 for improved cold-temp performance.

Good luck!

 

[randomhero439]

I would change it just after winter, to rid the fuel dilution and moisture from cold starts.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Changing the 0W-30 once per year (just before winter arrives) has worked very well for me. Fresh oil flows the best!!! and this is why I suggest installing 0W-30 for improved cold-temp performance.

Good luck!


I wish I could change at a one year interval with less than 10k! For each of the last several years, we've driven more than 25k in each vehicle. That will likely slow to just under 20k this year, so still can't do once a year.

 

[donnyj08]

that type of mileage just confirms that you should be able to go 10k+ miles per fill on SS. driving 25k a year is undoubtedly a fair amount of highway driving which burns off condensation and fuel. i would try 12.5k per oci on SS and do one UOA to help you sleep well about that long of an interval.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
So since the 0w doesn't have a -30 CCS reported, there really can't be a comparison at that temperature, but the 0w will flow much more readily at -35. Am I on target here?


Yes. The only expample I've found to show the effect of different cranking test temperatures was on the PetroCanada website. They report CCS data for their Duron 0w30 at two temperatures:

-30C = 3192 cP
-35C = 5651 cP

Those last 5 degrees of cooling caused the viscosity to increase 75%.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman

Yes. The only expample I've found to show the effect of different cranking test temperatures was on the PetroCanada website. They report CCS data for their Duron 0w30 at two temperatures:

-30C = 3192 cP
-35C = 5651 cP

Those last 5 degrees of cooling caused the viscosity to increase 75%.


That's one heck of an increase for only 5 degrees. Guess the chemistry graph goes ballistic in there somewhere. Thanks.