Some oils seem to work better than others on deposits and it has alot to do with the nature of the deposit itself. A quality conventional may be all a person needs and if a guy knew the nature(chemical components) of the deposits he is trying to eliminate then he could find an oil with the correct detergent/dispersant package that would work best in that application. Or find an additive with know qualities instead of shooting in the dark
2nd Kreen Cleaning -- 98 Camry V6 -- Results
- Thread starter Artem
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: V8man
Originally Posted By: Artem
I'm leaning towards ARX+ because I've had decent success with the older formula and hope that the new stronger formulation will clean better.
Good choice, since nobody on this site has used Auto-Rx Plus, we shall eventually find out if this product is worth buying.
Please take pics. Otherwise any perceived benefits will just be speculation and since most every additive thread lately gets reduced to a school yard sand fight we could use some data that can be viewed and judged.
PLUUUUUUHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSEEEEE
Thanks.
Originally Posted By: Artem
I'm leaning towards ARX+ because I've had decent success with the older formula and hope that the new stronger formulation will clean better.
Good choice, since nobody on this site has used Auto-Rx Plus, we shall eventually find out if this product is worth buying.
Please take pics. Otherwise any perceived benefits will just be speculation and since most every additive thread lately gets reduced to a school yard sand fight we could use some data that can be viewed and judged.
PLUUUUUUHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSEEEEE
Thanks.
Originally Posted By: V8man
Originally Posted By: Artem
I'm leaning towards ARX+ because I've had decent success with the older formula and hope that the new stronger formulation will clean better.
Good choice, since nobody on this site has used Auto-Rx Plus, we shall eventually find out if this product is worth buying.
All you'll find out is if it worked/didn't work for *one* person.
Can't get much of anything with a single sample.
Originally Posted By: Artem
I'm leaning towards ARX+ because I've had decent success with the older formula and hope that the new stronger formulation will clean better.
Good choice, since nobody on this site has used Auto-Rx Plus, we shall eventually find out if this product is worth buying.
All you'll find out is if it worked/didn't work for *one* person.
Can't get much of anything with a single sample.
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: Turk
Artem,
Which oil(s) have been previously used in this engine, along with OCI & filters?
The last 30k or so has been PYB in 5w-10w30 flavor as I've been doing back to back to back cleaning with ARX and now Kreen with 3k OCIs.
Before that it was Amsoil OE for 4-5 +/- OCIs with drain interv als of 5k (UOAs posted on here).
Before that it was Mobil 1 / EP with 3-5k intervals since new.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Are you trying to make it a well running engine or a place you can eat off of?
Try Auto-Rx Plus!
The block runs like a dream, always has. Full throttle, pedal buried in the floor mat and shifts @ redline everyday while zipping around town, getting on the highway, etc. Zero issues and she keeps asking for more! Original EVERYTHING (minus spark plugs, belts, fluids, battery and a starter)
I'd like to get it clean enough that I'll be able to sell the engine as "LIKE NEW" @ 300k when the rest of the body goes to the junk yard but the engine / tranny go on to live another life in another Camry for another 300k.
So are you saying those deposits accumulated using Mobil 1 EP exclusively? Interesting.
Originally Posted By: Turk
Artem,
Which oil(s) have been previously used in this engine, along with OCI & filters?
The last 30k or so has been PYB in 5w-10w30 flavor as I've been doing back to back to back cleaning with ARX and now Kreen with 3k OCIs.
Before that it was Amsoil OE for 4-5 +/- OCIs with drain interv als of 5k (UOAs posted on here).
Before that it was Mobil 1 / EP with 3-5k intervals since new.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Are you trying to make it a well running engine or a place you can eat off of?
Try Auto-Rx Plus!
The block runs like a dream, always has. Full throttle, pedal buried in the floor mat and shifts @ redline everyday while zipping around town, getting on the highway, etc. Zero issues and she keeps asking for more! Original EVERYTHING (minus spark plugs, belts, fluids, battery and a starter)
I'd like to get it clean enough that I'll be able to sell the engine as "LIKE NEW" @ 300k when the rest of the body goes to the junk yard but the engine / tranny go on to live another life in another Camry for another 300k.
So are you saying those deposits accumulated using Mobil 1 EP exclusively? Interesting.
Originally Posted By: V8man
Good choice, since nobody on this site has used Auto-Rx Plus, we shall eventually find out if this product is worth buying.
Unfortunately IMO it isn't going to tell much of anything. Other cleaners were already used and I'd bet my bottom dollar even though Artem didn't see the results he was hoping for [rightfully so], they did have an impact on the sludge and varnish. The only way to tell would be a test mule that cleaning wasn't attempted on.
The same can be said when someone says they tried A, B, and C cleaners and their lifter still ticked, then added cleaner X and it stopped. How can it be proven that X did the job, and it wasn't something else's hard work, that finally kicked in? Cleaning continues for a while after the oil with the cleaner has been changed out, I've seen it with my own eyes, as others have too. That can be called a rinse phase, which exists for several products if you care to use that term. Additional cleaning goes on, and the cleaner is in effect rinsed out by the new clean oil for lack of a better term.
Ever wonder why people who do UOA reports are told it is best to get one on the second or even third fill of oil when changing grades or brands?
Good choice, since nobody on this site has used Auto-Rx Plus, we shall eventually find out if this product is worth buying.
Unfortunately IMO it isn't going to tell much of anything. Other cleaners were already used and I'd bet my bottom dollar even though Artem didn't see the results he was hoping for [rightfully so], they did have an impact on the sludge and varnish. The only way to tell would be a test mule that cleaning wasn't attempted on.
The same can be said when someone says they tried A, B, and C cleaners and their lifter still ticked, then added cleaner X and it stopped. How can it be proven that X did the job, and it wasn't something else's hard work, that finally kicked in? Cleaning continues for a while after the oil with the cleaner has been changed out, I've seen it with my own eyes, as others have too. That can be called a rinse phase, which exists for several products if you care to use that term. Additional cleaning goes on, and the cleaner is in effect rinsed out by the new clean oil for lack of a better term.
Ever wonder why people who do UOA reports are told it is best to get one on the second or even third fill of oil when changing grades or brands?
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
That can be called a rinse phase, which exists for several products
Good point the new ARX plus could be acting just a rinse phase. Maybe ATX isn't the only product that requires a "rinse phase".
Your right IMO with all these products having been used the last one used will get all the credit but its not really conclusive which one did the actual cleaning if any.
I certainly wont be running out to buy any of this new plus stuff. I'm hundreds out of pocket already on the original which failed in 100% of the engines i tried it on.
Although i may buy one bottle to do a test and post it here on BITOG if i can find a suitable candidate.
Kreen on the other other hand resolved the problems i looking to address in a solid 95% of the cases for less than half the price.
Kreen did nothing in a few engines. One had a totally collapsed lifter, the other the beginnings of a bad piston pin, one a blown timing chain tensioner, etc.
No way it could have fixed these engines but it was worth a try before ripping into them to find the exact cause.
This is the test protocol i propose for any future test.
*Post picture of receipt to prove it was actually purchased.
*Find a suitable candidate that the valve cover is easy to remove.
*Change the oil with valvoline white bottle, ST or other dino oil if recommended and use the product.
*Take pictures of the engine and odometer with that days newspaper in view to prove no shenanigans.
*Run the whole whole drive cycle and repeat the pictures with newspaper and odometer.
*Run the rinse phase if needed and repeat the photo.
Let the chips fall where they may good or bad.
The newspaper date is important as is posting pictures the same day, pic sequences are easy to manipulate.
Before anyone gets in an uproar i am not saying anyone here has done any shenanigans with pics but on some other websites there have been.
The pics were all done at the same time before, during and after a manual cleaning then just posted at different intervals with miraculous results being posted at the end.
I think the folks here on BITOG are above that sort of nonsense and are genuinely interested in real testing.
I would demand the same of any product.
If someone just post a pic of a fill hole for the sake of showing something is working thats okay but when someone is doing a cover off to prove or disprove the effectiveness of a product then a real testing protocol should be established.
Understandably as most people are armatures it needs to be kept simple enough but genuine.
The newspaper date is a good way of authenticating the date.
Pictures with a clean engine and today's paper with never before posted pics of the dirty engine do no follow the protocol. Everyone has old newspapers around.
That can be called a rinse phase, which exists for several products
Good point the new ARX plus could be acting just a rinse phase. Maybe ATX isn't the only product that requires a "rinse phase".
Your right IMO with all these products having been used the last one used will get all the credit but its not really conclusive which one did the actual cleaning if any.
I certainly wont be running out to buy any of this new plus stuff. I'm hundreds out of pocket already on the original which failed in 100% of the engines i tried it on.
Although i may buy one bottle to do a test and post it here on BITOG if i can find a suitable candidate.
Kreen on the other other hand resolved the problems i looking to address in a solid 95% of the cases for less than half the price.
Kreen did nothing in a few engines. One had a totally collapsed lifter, the other the beginnings of a bad piston pin, one a blown timing chain tensioner, etc.
No way it could have fixed these engines but it was worth a try before ripping into them to find the exact cause.
This is the test protocol i propose for any future test.
*Post picture of receipt to prove it was actually purchased.
*Find a suitable candidate that the valve cover is easy to remove.
*Change the oil with valvoline white bottle, ST or other dino oil if recommended and use the product.
*Take pictures of the engine and odometer with that days newspaper in view to prove no shenanigans.
*Run the whole whole drive cycle and repeat the pictures with newspaper and odometer.
*Run the rinse phase if needed and repeat the photo.
Let the chips fall where they may good or bad.
The newspaper date is important as is posting pictures the same day, pic sequences are easy to manipulate.
Before anyone gets in an uproar i am not saying anyone here has done any shenanigans with pics but on some other websites there have been.
The pics were all done at the same time before, during and after a manual cleaning then just posted at different intervals with miraculous results being posted at the end.
I think the folks here on BITOG are above that sort of nonsense and are genuinely interested in real testing.
I would demand the same of any product.
If someone just post a pic of a fill hole for the sake of showing something is working thats okay but when someone is doing a cover off to prove or disprove the effectiveness of a product then a real testing protocol should be established.
Understandably as most people are armatures it needs to be kept simple enough but genuine.
The newspaper date is a good way of authenticating the date.
Pictures with a clean engine and today's paper with never before posted pics of the dirty engine do no follow the protocol. Everyone has old newspapers around.
I like it simple and easy to verify. The class I took to get lead certified as a contractor wants the newspaper with the date the job was done, showing steps taken to protect against lead contamination. Nice plan.
Forgot to mention Amsoil Power Foam! I bet you get much better results spraying that in your intake ports vs. a regular carb cleaner because of the foaming action which will allow more solvent to "stick" to the surface of the ports.
Also, you mentioned somewhere you redline a lot? With the Kreen in the sump? Its very volatile, most of it would flash off under those conditions. To me, Kreen seemed to perform better in the winter under cooler conditions.
Also, you mentioned somewhere you redline a lot? With the Kreen in the sump? Its very volatile, most of it would flash off under those conditions. To me, Kreen seemed to perform better in the winter under cooler conditions.
If you do spot testing with carb cleaner spray, why not use a dropper test with Kreen too? If raw Kreen does nothing, you can be assured that diluted with the oil, there will be zero chance of it affecting the valve cover. Once again, this is to be done as a spot check so as not to contaminate the final results.
Now some people will tell you that ingredients in Kreen get "activated" only at 200 degree temperature and it does nothing at room temperature. I am not going to ask you to boil Kreen
I have done these type of experiments with various cleaners with uniformly bad results but you might get lucky.
Now some people will tell you that ingredients in Kreen get "activated" only at 200 degree temperature and it does nothing at room temperature. I am not going to ask you to boil Kreen
I have done these type of experiments with various cleaners with uniformly bad results but you might get lucky.
Sorry for the off-topic question, but I noticed in the OP's pictures that the exhaust cam gear has a slot cut in the middle of the teeth...what's that for?
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Forgot to mention Amsoil Power Foam! I bet you get much better results spraying that in your intake ports vs. a regular carb cleaner because of the foaming action which will allow more solvent to "stick" to the surface of the ports.
Good stuff. I've used Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner myself.
Forgot to mention Amsoil Power Foam! I bet you get much better results spraying that in your intake ports vs. a regular carb cleaner because of the foaming action which will allow more solvent to "stick" to the surface of the ports.
Good stuff. I've used Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner myself.
Nobody brings up B-12 for engine cleaning anymore. It used to be popular for that purpose.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Nobody brings up B-12 for engine cleaning anymore. It used to be popular for that purpose.
Good stuff, but too similar to Seafoam (also good stuff) and modern engines just don't have the kinds of deposits they're designed to clean up. Sure, it's fun to smoke out your neighborhood once in a while, but there's not much to say about them other than that, really.
Nobody brings up B-12 for engine cleaning anymore. It used to be popular for that purpose.
Good stuff, but too similar to Seafoam (also good stuff) and modern engines just don't have the kinds of deposits they're designed to clean up. Sure, it's fun to smoke out your neighborhood once in a while, but there's not much to say about them other than that, really.
The way I look at it is that both Kreen and MMO are pretty cheap experiments. I can buy MMO for about $5.00 at my local Wal-Mart Store. Kreen is somewhat more expensive and there is a handling and shipping fee. But both are not that expensive and a person could find out for themselves if these products cleaned engines or not.
I would probably try MMO first. It might be best to try it in the wintertime because it might thin the oil somewhat. If the car or truck started to run much better and there was some indication that cleaning was actually taking place then you know that MMO apparently works. It could do some preliminary cleaning also before you tried Kreen.
Do an oil change (don't have both cleaners in the engine at the same time) and use some Kreen 500-1000 miles before an oil change. If you somehow can get photos of the insides of the engine that would be great.
A lot of people here at this website say they have obtained results using MMO and Kreen. It is hard for me to believe that they are all wrong.
I would probably try MMO first. It might be best to try it in the wintertime because it might thin the oil somewhat. If the car or truck started to run much better and there was some indication that cleaning was actually taking place then you know that MMO apparently works. It could do some preliminary cleaning also before you tried Kreen.
Do an oil change (don't have both cleaners in the engine at the same time) and use some Kreen 500-1000 miles before an oil change. If you somehow can get photos of the insides of the engine that would be great.
A lot of people here at this website say they have obtained results using MMO and Kreen. It is hard for me to believe that they are all wrong.
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Sorry for the off-topic question, but I noticed in the OP's pictures that the exhaust cam gear has a slot cut in the middle of the teeth...what's that for?
Inquiring minds want to know ^^^^^
My guess us it makes the gear into an oil slinger
Sorry for the off-topic question, but I noticed in the OP's pictures that the exhaust cam gear has a slot cut in the middle of the teeth...what's that for?
Inquiring minds want to know ^^^^^
My guess us it makes the gear into an oil slinger
Can somebody comment on this UOA? What is the implication? Where is copper and lead coming from? Is that a sign of eminent death? Is Kreen causing the appearance of copper and lead?
Frankly, I am not understanding the general fascination with the UOA. If I read the report correctly, this is at least the 6th UOA done (from 196K to 233K). The UOA at least costs as much as your oil change. Essentially, you have been doubling your cost of oil changes. Tell me what value have you got from your $125.
I hope I am not touching the proverbial third rail here!
Frankly, I am not understanding the general fascination with the UOA. If I read the report correctly, this is at least the 6th UOA done (from 196K to 233K). The UOA at least costs as much as your oil change. Essentially, you have been doubling your cost of oil changes. Tell me what value have you got from your $125.
I hope I am not touching the proverbial third rail here!
Something that anybody can do and be completely safe is use a good cleaning motor oil, such as Pennzoil Platinum. Pennzoil has actual engine sequence test data to prove that their motor oils clean. All you have to do is an oil change and the Pennzoil Platinum is a little more expensive than whatever conventional motor oil you were using. And the Pennzoil is 100% approved for use in engines.
If anybody is concerned about the safety of any of these cleaners, MMO, Kreen, Auto-RX or whatever, just use a good cleaning motor oil.
If anybody is concerned about the safety of any of these cleaners, MMO, Kreen, Auto-RX or whatever, just use a good cleaning motor oil.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Can somebody comment on this UOA? What is the implication? Where is copper and lead coming from? Is that a sign of eminent death? Is Kreen causing the appearance of copper and lead?
Frankly, I am not understanding the general fascination with the UOA. If I read the report correctly, this is at least the 6th UOA done (from 196K to 233K). The UOA at least costs as much as your oil change. Essentially, you have been doubling your cost of oil changes. Tell me what value have you got from your $125.
I hope I am not touching the proverbial third rail here!
The UOA showed that I can easily extend my OCIs with Amsoil OE to 7,500 miles at a minimum and possibly even 10k with a higher quality oil like Amsoil XL or any other high quality lube. The car sees a lot of highway use and so extended OCIs work for me.
The UOA also showed that I might have bad bearings as the copper and lead have been high since the first analysis.
With this info, I can easily dump the car now before the problem gets worse. I'm choosing to keep on running the car until my goal of 300,000 miles. Hopefully the engine and the rest of the car lasts that long.
Money well spent in my opinion. After the cleaning is done, I'll most likely proceed with 7,500 mile OCIs and call it a day. The money saved over the next 70,000 miles worth of oil changes from the extended OCIs will pay for the UOA cost.
Can somebody comment on this UOA? What is the implication? Where is copper and lead coming from? Is that a sign of eminent death? Is Kreen causing the appearance of copper and lead?
Frankly, I am not understanding the general fascination with the UOA. If I read the report correctly, this is at least the 6th UOA done (from 196K to 233K). The UOA at least costs as much as your oil change. Essentially, you have been doubling your cost of oil changes. Tell me what value have you got from your $125.
I hope I am not touching the proverbial third rail here!
The UOA showed that I can easily extend my OCIs with Amsoil OE to 7,500 miles at a minimum and possibly even 10k with a higher quality oil like Amsoil XL or any other high quality lube. The car sees a lot of highway use and so extended OCIs work for me.
The UOA also showed that I might have bad bearings as the copper and lead have been high since the first analysis.
With this info, I can easily dump the car now before the problem gets worse. I'm choosing to keep on running the car until my goal of 300,000 miles. Hopefully the engine and the rest of the car lasts that long.
Money well spent in my opinion. After the cleaning is done, I'll most likely proceed with 7,500 mile OCIs and call it a day. The money saved over the next 70,000 miles worth of oil changes from the extended OCIs will pay for the UOA cost.
- Status
