PQIA"s synthetic find

[FoxS]

skyship has often pushed Castrol. He has such a strong bias towards it that he made up the interpretation of the data as he read it.

He was also in a thread where he was quite active in questioning the preference for M1. He contradicted himself in the space of 2 posts there. Firstly saying that Mobil gear oils were not good enough for the OEMs then saying that they were equivalent to Fuchs which were good enough for OEMs. Of course the best gear oil was Castrol.

I interpreted the reference to trolling as skyship is trolling with respect to Castrol.

And btw, it wasn't his opinion I took exception to, it was the fact that he finally posted a link and formed a conclusion that was diametrically opposite to what the data in the link was saying

 

[ottotheclown]

If they are all on finding fault what a waste of knowledge IMHo On this website some promote Mobil on a weekly basis others Shell etc I just always felt daily attacks have to be replacing info that we look for especially on BITOG. Either way I will take your suggestion if I think it is another attack oh well

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
Wow I thought we were not to do this trolling which seems to be a constant theme these days... It cheapens the threads and makes them look like stuff you find on lesser websites. IMHO

Originally Posted By: Clevy
What's SOAPUS. A disease or something.
Keep going sunkship. Who will be next to teach you a lesson. You are resilient though. Like a cockroach.


Right. So how about I just post incorrect info and tailor my copy and pastes to suit my agenda.
At least I post info that is as close to fact as I can get,including that one.
Put me on ignore Otto and save yourself the horror of reading my posts.

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I was referring to QS numbers that were listed over 10%.

Here you go: http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140003587115_201007020127.pdf

Did PQIA mix up samples?


Yes I was surprised at that too. If PQIA are correct then QSUD is superb considering it is often available with a $20 rebate.

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

I really don't see much difference between QSUD and PP.


I agree. Most of the numbers are so close it could be the same oil except for batch variations.

The main exception would be calcium which is 10% different. TBN and Noack are .5 different.

Can't see any of that making any real world difference.

Wonder if they tested a dexos QSUD? The bottle pic suggests they might have.

Also interesting that the thinner oils had lower Noack.

 

[sopususer]

Anybody notice the Pennzoil Platinum bottle pictured is 10W-30? I wonder if the data is correct for PP 5W-30 or if they made a mistake and got the 10W-30?

Assuming the data on all the SOPUS oils is correct, PU gets the crown in my opinion, but the difference between PP and QSUD is very slim.

 

[termigator]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

I really don't see much difference between QSUD and PP.


I agree. Most of the numbers are so close it could be the same oil except for batch variations.

The main exception would be calcium which is 10% different. TBN and Noack are .5 different.

Can't see any of that making any real world difference.

Wonder if they tested a dexos QSUD? The bottle pic suggests they might have.

Also interesting that the thinner oils had lower Noack.



Not that surprising, considering they're made by the same company. Price wise, it's now only a $2 difference between the two at Walmart after the the recent "Price rollback" on PP.

 

[termigator]

What's the deal with sodium and Valvoline? I was looking around the PIQA website and noticed Nextgen also had loads of sodium. It seems strange that they're the only company that thinks sodium is important. What's the sodium supposed to do?

 

[skyship]

Yes they have not tested the latest oils for some reason, that's fine for owners of older cars, BUT if you have something new with a DPF, OR you want to use one of the new oils the list is not too good.
There is a difference between some of the Castrol products in the EU and US, as we don't get some cheaper products, but are second in line for the newer ones. Not seen any Edge 0/40 in the shops yet, although oil is cheaper on Fleabay here.

In my opinion,
Shell seems to be loosing out to Mobil in technical terms and I don't know of any new OEM box contracts for a while. They also seem to have lost a few Iffy lube contracts to Liqui Moly or Mobil, although that is partly cost related. There is a big new Iffy lube just opened near me that seems to be owned by the local Ford dealer and the old place used Shell but it now has Mobil.
I'm using the term SOAPUS cos that is what is written on some PDF's relating to anti foam agents or the effects of overfilling the crankcase and I like my own sense of humour.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: termigator
What's the deal with sodium and Valvoline? I was looking around the PIQA website and noticed Nextgen also had loads of sodium. It seems strange that they're the only company that thinks sodium is important. What's the sodium supposed to do?


Extract from Waynes garage about Sodium (Na):
ACID NEUTRALIZERS
As the engine operates, combustion gasses acidic by-products from the sulfur in the fuel. The acids combine with moisture (every gallon of gasoline burnt produces ½ gallon of moisture) which dissolve bearing surfaces.
All modern motor oils contain sodium hydroxides (NaOH) to combat the acid build up in the oil. As the oil becomes contaminated and turns acid, the NaOH gets used up. Preventing acid buildup is a very big reason for changing motor oil regularily. Short trip driving is the worst kind of driving for this problem as moisture is not boiled off during driving cycles.

Because everyone's driving habits are different, everyone's oil gets contaminated at a different rate. And since various oils contain different amounts of NaOH, the only real way to tell if your oil is acid contaminated is by having it analyzed.

The TBN represents the number of grams of NaOH per kilogram of oil. New oil comes with a TBN number ranging from 5 to 12, depending on the quality of the oil. Store bought oils have a TBN of 6. High quality synthetics have a TBN of as high as 12. When the TBN drops below 2, it's time to change it.

Extract from Blackstone web site:
But wait! We do actually have a preference when it comes to buying oils for our personal use engines. That preference however, has little to do with brand names.
We analyze oil from our personal use engines (right down to our lawn mowers) religiously. We tend to choose oil that does not contain additives such as sodium and copper. The copper additive masks brass or bronze wear from the engine. Sodium additives can mask anti-freeze contamination.

PS. When looking at UOA's it helps to know how much Na is in the VOA, otherwise if the coolant does not contain any Potassium compounds you can overlook a developing coolant to oil system leak, which is a disaster in the offing as regards sludge formation.
If you use bad fuel with a high Sulphur content then use an oil with more Sodium additive. This is one reason why the US sometimes has shorter recommended OCI's than the EU if you use a low Sodium oil, although the main reason is the use of 20 grades.
Valvoline Synpower has lots of Sodium if you need to use real bad fuel.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: termigator
What's the deal with sodium and Valvoline? I was looking around the PIQA website and noticed Nextgen also had loads of sodium. It seems strange that they're the only company that thinks sodium is important. What's the sodium supposed to do?


I saw voa for the entire valvoline line,from conventional to synthetic and the add packs are almost identical,so I assume only the base stocks change.
I tried it for the first time in a vehicle in my girls windstar. She commented that the van was running more smoothly,and a comment on the running condition of a vehicle from her means something since she really has no vehicle knowledge at all.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Im glad to see some proof of PU low NOACK claim!

I'm still waiting for those that insisted that the data sheet was wrong to comment here. Perhaps they'll say that PQIA is wrong as well.

-Dennis

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: termigator
What's the deal with sodium and Valvoline? I was looking around the PIQA website and noticed Nextgen also had loads of sodium. It seems strange that they're the only company that thinks sodium is important. What's the sodium supposed to do?


I'm guessing NA is a Lubrizol Additive package?? I say that because Valvoline is LZ's largest customer. There are many options when formulating oils.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: volk06
Im glad to see some proof of PU low NOACK claim!

I'm still waiting for those that insisted that the data sheet was wrong to comment here. Perhaps they'll say that PQIA is wrong as well.

-Dennis


I was skeptical, but it's been confirmed by PQIA. That's enough proof for me.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: volk06
Im glad to see some proof of PU low NOACK claim!

I'm still waiting for those that insisted that the data sheet was wrong to comment here. Perhaps they'll say that PQIA is wrong as well.

-Dennis


I was skeptical, but it's been confirmed by PQIA. That's enough proof for me.


Yup, same here

 

[ottotheclown]

Compare PYB# on the 5-20 SN http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...nt=4&page=1

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: skyship

Extract from Waynes garage about Sodium (Na):
ACID NEUTRALIZERS
As the engine operates, combustion gasses acidic by-products from the sulfur in the fuel. The acids combine with moisture (every gallon of gasoline burnt produces ½ gallon of moisture) which dissolve bearing surfaces.
All modern motor oils contain sodium hydroxides (NaOH)


Motor oils do not contain NaOH.

Tom NJ

 

[ottotheclown]

Boys and Girls please make note of a first class individual.

Thanks Tom for your reply!!quote=skyship]
Extract from Waynes garage about Sodium (Na):
ACID NEUTRALIZERS
As the engine operates, combustion gasses acidic by-products from the sulfur in the fuel. The acids combine with moisture (every gallon of gasoline burnt produces ½ gallon of moisture) which dissolve bearing surfaces.
All modern motor oils contain sodium hydroxides (NaOH) [/quote]

Motor oils do not contain NaOH.

Tom NJ [/quote]

 

[KCJeep]

Valvoline is not the only one to use sodium, Castrol uses it a good bit too, as do a bunch of store brand oils I've noticed but those are likely made by one of those two or Warren.

Mobil and SOPUS have avoided sodium thus far from what I've seen.

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Mobil and SOPUS have avoided sodium thus far from what I've seen.


I believe Mobil is using it in one of their conventionals now as well.

 

[buster]

Many oils contain a lot of the same additives - calcium, ZDP, boron, moly (two types from what I've seen), Na and Mg. What a company chooses to use is probably based on cost and other logistical/formulation reasons.

Mobil has always been a stand out IMO for using the latest in base oil and additive technology and they even state that themselves. If you notice, a lot of oils look like Mobil 1 from a few years back. Mobil used Na briefly when they came out with their Mobil Clean 7500 oil back in 2006 or so.

At the end of the day though, it's about specifications and approvals. That should be the most important factor when chosing an oil. The rest is markeing and brand loyalty. Mobil has a long history of producing top notch synthetics and that's why I've remained a Mobil fan over the years.