Cummins 5.9, Amsoil DEO 5W40

[cles]

Attached are the results of 3 of the last 4 oil tests done on my truck. Given the recent high copper levels, and lack of other metals, I'm guessing it's time for a new oil cooler? This is in a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 QC 4X4. It is basically a highway truck. It seldomly tows light loads and/or carries 1500 lbs on the box.

Any experts have other opinions?

Sample #1 - April/11 - 277,000k on truck, 21,500k on oil
Sample #2 - NOT SHOWN - Aug/11 - 285,000k on truck, 30,000k on oil, oil changed (results not shown, but nothing high to report)
Sample #3 - Jun/12 - 320,000k on truck, 35,000k on oil
Sample #4 - Feb/13 - 344,000k on truck, 23,500k on oil


Sample......#1 / #3 / #4 / New Oil
Tin..........0 / 1 / 1 / 0
Lead.........1 / 2 / 1 / 0
Copper.......4 / 264 / 104 / 1
Aluminum.....5 / 8 / 4 / 1
Silicon......4 / 5 / 5 / 2
Iron.........22 / 38 / 26 / 2
Chromium.....0.9 / 2 / 0.6 / 0.3
Silver.......0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Zinc........1250 / 1300 / 1250 / 1150
Magnesium...1100 / 1200 / 1150 / 0.9
Nickel.......0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Barium.......0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Sodium.......7 / 8 / 6 / 1
Calcium.....914 / 950 / 854 / 2300
Vanadium.....0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Phosphorus..1100 / 1100 / 1050 / 1050
Boron........45 / 34 / 35 / 59
Manganese....0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Vis @100C...14.44 / 15.03 / 14.85 / 15.19
Water........0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Solids.......0.1 / 0.1 / 0.2 / 0
Glycol.......No / No / No
Fuel.........No / No / No
Oil changed?.No / Yes / No
Soot.........Low / Low / Mod

Thanks

 

[Donald]

TBN? Its possible the oil had a low TBN and was etching the copper in the oil cooler.

My guess is the copper if its from the oil cooler has such a small particle size that its not a problem.

What oil & filter?

Get a particle size count next time. (I know it costs more). Unfortunately the particle size count does does not tell you what the particle is made from, just the size.

Lastly you do not want the oil cooler to fail, but I am not sure how to test it to see if the walls are getting thin?

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: cles
Attached are the results of 3 of the last 4 oil tests done on my truck. Given the recent high copper levels, and lack of other metals, I'm guessing it's time for a new oil cooler? This is in a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 QC 4X4. It is basically a highway truck. It seldomly tows light loads and/or carries 1500 lbs on the box.

Any experts have other opinions?

Sample #1 - April/11 - 277,000k on truck, 21,500k on oil
Sample #2 - NOT SHOWN - Aug/11 - 285,000k on truck, 30,000k on oil, oil changed (results not shown, but nothing high to report)
Sample #3 - Jun/12 - 320,000k on truck, 35,000k on oil
Sample #4 - Feb/13 - 344,000k on truck, 23,500k on oil
Sample......#1 / #3 / #4 / New Oil
Tin..........0 / 1 / 1 / 0
Lead.........1 / 2 / 1 / 0
Copper.......4 / 264 / 104 / 1
Aluminum.....5 / 8 / 4 / 1
Silicon......4 / 5 / 5 / 2
Iron.........22 / 38 / 26 / 2
Chromium.....0.9 / 2 / 0.6 / 0.3
Silver.......0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Zinc........1250 / 1300 / 1250 / 1150
Magnesium...1100 / 1200 / 1150 / 0.9
Nickel.......0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Barium.......0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Sodium.......7 / 8 / 6 / 1
Calcium.....914 / 950 / 854 / 2300
Vanadium.....0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Phosphorus..1100 / 1100 / 1050 / 1050
Boron........45 / 34 / 35 / 59
Manganese....0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Vis @100C...14.44 / 15.03 / 14.85 / 15.19
Water........0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Solids.......0.1 / 0.1 / 0.2 / 0
Glycol.......No / No / No
Fuel.........No / No / No
Oil changed?.No / Yes / No
Soot.........Low / Low / Mod
Thanks


Is this the 5.7 V8 Hemi engine?? If it is the recommended OCI in the EU is only 10K km.
Even with a bypass filter and synthetic 35K miles is interesting, as the filter might keep the wear metal figures in order and a top quality synthetic might not shear out of grade too far, but the TBN can fall too far making the oil acidic. Acid and Copper don't like each other.
I would suggest trying an HDEO fully approved by Cummins and reducing the OCI to 10K miles to see what happens to the Copper figure. The other figures are fine and the air filter is real good.
I did take a look at the US Dodge Ram forum and they seem to be doing OCI's of around between 5 and 10K miles.

 

[Chris142]

Its a diesel

 

[skyship]

Oops I clicked on the 5.7 and not the 5.9 TD, but here are the OCI results:
Ram Truck, DR (2004 - ) Name: Ram 2500/3500 5.9 TD (4x2), DR
Engine Cummins TD
Capacity : LubeCap 8,2 liter Service fill
: LubeCap 9,4 liter Dry fill
Use : Normal / Intervals : Change 12000 km / 6 months

The approved oils vary from 5 to 10/40's including HDEO's and G4 full synthetics and I did get the right Ram forum results, so other owners seem to be using 5 to 10K mile OCI's according to severity of service. The folks doing extended 15K mile OCI's seem to be using a 15/40 HDEO.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Is this the 5.7 V8 Hemi engine??


Reading is fundamental.

Is Cummins known for gasser hemis (do they even make any)?
Is DEO listed as a gasser oil?

Last I checked,
Originally Posted By: cles
Cummins 5.9, Amsoil DEO 5W40 ... 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 QC 4X4


...pretty much defines exactly what engine (Cummins ISB CR) is in use in this vehicle.

Cles, was DEO used for all 4 oil changes? I've seen spikes in copper from oil coolers when switching oil brands but it typically settles down after 2 - 3 OCIs. In any case, it's trending down. I'd run at least one more OCI before deciding to change out the oil cooler or switching oil brands.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Oops I clicked on the 5.7 and not the 5.9 TD, but here are the OCI results:
Ram Truck, DR (2004 - ) Name: Ram 2500/3500 5.9 TD (4x2), DR
Engine Cummins TD
Capacity : LubeCap 8,2 liter Service fill
: LubeCap 9,4 liter Dry fill
Use : Normal / Intervals : Change 12000 km / 6 months

The approved oils vary from 5 to 10/40's including HDEO's and G4 full synthetics and I did get the right Ram forum results, so other owners seem to be using 5 to 10K mile OCI's according to severity of service. The folks doing extended 15K mile OCI's seem to be using a 15/40 HDEO.




Skyship - what did you click now? Those capacities are not correct. Its a 12 QT capacity same as my 1999 Cummins. I used Rotella T in my Cummins and got a great UOA, now have Rotella T6. No problem extending the OCI as long as you do a UOA.

 

[cles]

I don't have TBN's for any of the samples. I will request that test when I send the next sample.

Forgot to mention, I use Amsoil oil filters, EAO80.

I bought the truck at 243,000k and was told it had used Amsoil DEO all its life, and that is all I've used since.

And all odo readings are kilometres, not miles (I'm in Canada)

Thanks for the replies and recommendations. I was a little leery on how far to push the cooler. If it makes another 10,000k, I'll probably just change it out (after another sample).

 

[skyship]

The last set of figures are for the Cummins version. Just to confuse things the OP has pointed out the figures are in Km, when I thought they were miles, so not too over the top in OCI terms. Rotella or Delvac are both good oils, although Rotella seems to be cheaper where I am.
Not sure if you can tell a failing oil cooler from Copper figures, as the tend to jump around too much due to oil chemistry and changes in ph. More a case for inspecting the cooler itself.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: skyship
The last set of figures are for the Cummins version. Just to confuse things the OP has pointed out the figures are in Km, when I thought they were miles, so not too over the top in OCI terms. Rotella or Delvac are both good oils, although Rotella seems to be cheaper where I am.
Not sure if you can tell a failing oil cooler from Copper figures, as the tend to jump around too much due to oil chemistry and changes in ph. More a case for inspecting the cooler itself.


You are still wrong on the capacity as 12 QT is not equal to 9.4 liters. Now 12 QT is for a US Cummins diesel engine. While doubtful, they could make make a different size oil pan for the engine in other countries.

 

[skyship]

That figure was for the US car site, BUT they only had the engine listed for the following year, so it looks like a possible site error.
Oddly enough Castrol US list the engine, but then say "No match found" with a telephone number, although they don't give OCI data.

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: skyship
The last set of figures are for the Cummins version. Just to confuse things the OP has pointed out the figures are in Km, when I thought they were miles, so not too over the top in OCI terms. Rotella or Delvac are both good oils, although Rotella seems to be cheaper where I am.
Not sure if you can tell a failing oil cooler from Copper figures, as the tend to jump around too much due to oil chemistry and changes in ph. More a case for inspecting the cooler itself.

You are still wrong on the capacity as 12 QT is not equal to 9.4 liters. Now 12 QT is for a US Cummins diesel engine. While doubtful, they could make make a different size oil pan for the engine in other countries.
My '06 Cummins Ram actually holds 11 US qts. with filter, so 9.4 liters is probably correct. Might be time for a change or 2 with regular dino oil such as Rotella, Delo, or some other 15W40 or 10W30 HDEO to see if the copper calms down some.